OK. I got one. Woohoo!!
Ummmm. . .. how do I use it?
I'm able to various noises out of it, but it seems like it should be doing much more.
I looked at the info on the Wiard page but it seems very much more like "product info" and not very "product manual".
I need a manual or some helpful hints as the pic and name on the Wiard version don't match up to the Malekko version which only confused me more I guess.
Thanks!
-b
@Subtraqt- feel free to chime in on this one, or just give me a call!
Malekko Noisering
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newgreyarea
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:44 pm
- Location: Downtown Los Angeles
You won't like it..........sell it to me (:
Try using the output on a VCO cv in..........set the noisering to slow..........melodies, kinda random but not.
Set it faster .........computer FM
experiment.
Try using the output on a VCO cv in..........set the noisering to slow..........melodies, kinda random but not.
Set it faster .........computer FM
experiment.
My youtube modular music movies:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f
clock externally in sync with your other stuff (or not), attenuate one of the outputs, send it through a quantizer and into the pitch input on an osc, turn change down and you have a loop of pitches. turn change up a bit to get some new values in the loop. attenuate to limit the range of notes. have fun! also, like the wogglebug, i find a whole range of uses by slowing it down.
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Ivo Ivanov
- Sausage Wiggler
- Posts: 1116
- Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:35 am
Here you go, Brad:
(credit goes to Babaluma from another thread)
NOISE RING INFO:
I am wondering if can anyone explain the relationship between the "Ring" lights and the bits flowing through the shift register. It seems that higher voltages are present when the LEDs are red, but I can't quite understand how the three states (green, red, off) relate to the two states (one, zero) of the shift register.
the shift register is an 8-bit register divided into two four-bit 'nibbles'.
the first nibble is:
do
d1
d2
d3
and the second is
d4
d5
d6
d7
the 4 leds indicate a comparison between the states of the following pairs of
bits:
d0 - d4
d1 - d5
d2 - d6
d3 - d7
using d0-d4 as an example:
when d0 = d4 led is OFF
when d0 > d4 led is green
when d0 < d4 led is red
(I might have the green/red states reversed)
My assumption regarding why Grant used this method is that it is a good indicator of CHANGE - which is the exact type of feedback the user needs to adjust probablility controls. The compromise is of course that it is very hard to determine the exact state of the 8-bit register from this 4-led display. But (i likewise assume) devoting an entire 8-led subassembly and the requisite panel real estate for a direct register display would have been more costly. The 'Goldberg jr.' that i gave Grant in July 2001 had an 8-led direct display but no clock or data indicators. I'm impressed with the efficiency and economy of the scheme Grant devised to get a lot of feed back to the user with just 8 lights and very low current consumption. Hope this helps you 'read' what your marvelous little gadget is doing.
I am having a hard time getting the noise ring to process external data. In particular, I have been unable to achieve the phased sound when patching another oscillator into the chance input jack. When I do this and monitor the main out I hear nothing at all. Has anyone else had this problem? What could I be doing wrong?
1. Make sure the "Change" pot is all the way up (LED full on).
2. Input a VCO 10 volt peak to peak triangle or sawtooth wave into "Chance In" jack.
3. Adjust "Chance" control so some LED signal is seen.
4. Monitor main output and play with VCO frequency and "Rate" setting.
Run an external audio signal of +/- 5 volts into the "Chance In" input jack. This is normalled to the white noise output.
Set the "Change" knob all the way on. Vary the "Chance" control knob to change the sound.
Also vary the "Rate" knob to change the sound. You can reduce the setting of the "Change" control knob as an experiment.
In order to avoid re-inventing the wheel, please read the circuit desciption Grant posted at:
http://www.wiard.com/1200/NR/Noise_Ring.html
i will be referring to the block diagram he posted.
regarding digital noise:
If we force a feature-by-feature comparison of the I.D. and the N.R, the one feature that the N.R. lacks is a 'conventional' digital noise source. The main and aux outputs of the N.R. are both digital noise , to be sure, but they are both variable in spectrum and controlled by the two CV vectors, "Change' & Chance'. This makes them a little different from conventionally produced digital noise sources (such as the now extinct MM5x37 chips).
The Blacet I.D. is a very full featured implementation of a tried and true, time-honored method of random voltage generation in analog modulars. To wit, a noise source (continuously variable between digital or analog) is 'snapshotted' by a sample hold at a voltage controlled sample rate and output as random steps. The pattern of these steps vary in amplitude according to the spectrum of the input noise and , in duration by the clock rate. Thus, the output steps are derived dirctly from the noise sources, analog , digital or some mix of both.
The Wiard N.R. uses analog noise at a basic source point in it's algorithm, but never directly. This noise is never sampled by an sample/hold circuit, in fact there are no sample/hold circuits in the N.R and this is a fundamental distinction. (It will help to consult the N.R. block diagram, at this point) You may already know how a shift register works but for anyone who doesn't, i'm going to use the analogy of a conveyer belt with room for 8 people....
In the N.R., analog noise is used to tickle the threshold of a comparator, the comparator flips on and off producing either 'someone' or 'no one'. depending on the state of the comparator. This person/non-person stands OFF the conveyer belt waiting for a signal. The signal comes from the clock. The clock is also a 2-state device. We'll call them 'tick' and 'tock'. Remember that the clock is not steady. It varies with a CV. This is important. When the clock is in a 'tock' state , nothing happens. The conveyer belt doesn't move and no one steps on. The N.R.'s output is static. But when the clock switches to "tick" the conveyer belt moves one step and if the comparator was tickled to it's 'someone' state, someone steps aboard. If it was in 'no one' state the conveyer moves one step with an empty place. On the next tick the conveyer lurches forward and if anyone was in the last (8th) position they get dumped off. Another thing happens at each tick, the DAC takes a snapshot of the pattern of occupied and unoccupied places on the conveyer, and based on that pattern it sends a voltage to the output, a different voltage for every different pattern, Thus as the two devices, comparator and clock, go on flickering , the conveyer gets loaded with different patterns that SHIFT on each tick. This cycling of patterns is the heart of the N.R.'s method, and this is very close to the classic function of a digital shift register.
But there are some twists! And one of the more brilliant twists that Grant conceived is depicted in the block digram by the line marked 'old data' feeding the "solid state switch' . This is controlled by the 'Change' control. As the 'Change' control vector decreases, the chances INCREASE that the passenger who was just dumped off the end of the conveyer will get another turn and move right back to the front of the conveyer again and prevents any 'new' passengers (from the flickering comparator) from boarding. The effect of this is a 'circular' buffer wherein the pattern repeats ad infinitum until 'new' passengers are re-introduced by increasing the change control. At slow clock rates this results in cycling patterns. At audio clock rates the effect is a clearly discernible pitch. The wonderful thing about this is that the change control vector is continuous and thus, at audio frequencies, random audio (noise) will start to organize itself into a pitched tone. The 'between states' are sublime (to my perverse ear, anyway) and if you descend into chaos again , when you morph to pitch the next time there's no guarantee that you'll get the same wave as before. Please forgive me for editorializing, but the resulting patterns are exquisite!!! i'm sorry to confess my fetish, but that's just the very definition of my personal idea of a good time!
To drag this screed back to the issue of comparison. The method of pattern generation just described is very different than the sample/hold method used by the I.D. (and MANY other RVG is modular synth history). Most importantly, this method yields a very different character of output patterns than a sample/hold-based design produces. The noise sources are never sampled directly and thus, the output SOUNDS different from sample/hold-based output. i've foolishly engaged in past disputes about whether this is can be called 'random' or not, and if it IS randow, how random is it? That's a semantic issue and a waste of time. The bottom line is that the noise ring yields MUSICALLY interesting patterns (to my ear) and that's what matters. In all fairness, Sample/holds yield interesting patterns too (i have 9 versions of them, at last count) but the noise ring's output is distinct from all of them. The other very important distinction is the effect of the ability to exercise a very fine level of control over the 'chance' and 'change' parameters. This is a unique and VERY powerful feature.
The Buchla "Sources of Uncertainty' is the seminal circuit that employs a similar use of noise (as a modulator of the sampled source, rather than the noise being the sampled source itself), and a recursive structure that can create suprisngly musical patterns in the name of UNCERTAINTY, which I think is a better term than RANDOMNESS.
When I use the term entropy I mean Shannon's measure of information entropy, not thermodynamic entropy (which uses a similar equation, the reason Shannon used the term "entropy"). Information entropy is just a histogram of the number of levels in a matrix of information, expressed as the number of bits needed to store that number of levels. If there are only two levels, you only need 1 bit to store it. If there are 4 levels, you need 2 bits to store the information and so on.
The original Buchla 266 presented control of the level entropy of the uncertainty source (from 1 to 6 bits). But there was no control over the frequency spectrum entropy (if you calculated the information entropy of the DFT). The Buchla 265 sample and hold presented control of the time spectrum entropy via the recursion control, but not the level entropy.
The Noise Ring provides both types of control, level entropy via the "Chance" control, and frequency spectrum entropy via the "Change" control.
I don't know if this is scientifically true, but it is believeable that the ear does both types of entropy measurements at a very fundimental level. The ear uses a kind of "battery" system to supply the ear, because blood flow would be too noisy. The ear uses "hairs" to sense both level and frequency information. IF an excited cell uses more "current" than a non-excited one, then the way the ear is structured, the information entropy is proportional to the "current draw" for the two different "hair" structures. One for levels (amplifier cells) and one for time spectrum entropy (cochlial cells). Higher information entropy excites more cells, which draw more "current".
(credit goes to Babaluma from another thread)
NOISE RING INFO:
I am wondering if can anyone explain the relationship between the "Ring" lights and the bits flowing through the shift register. It seems that higher voltages are present when the LEDs are red, but I can't quite understand how the three states (green, red, off) relate to the two states (one, zero) of the shift register.
the shift register is an 8-bit register divided into two four-bit 'nibbles'.
the first nibble is:
do
d1
d2
d3
and the second is
d4
d5
d6
d7
the 4 leds indicate a comparison between the states of the following pairs of
bits:
d0 - d4
d1 - d5
d2 - d6
d3 - d7
using d0-d4 as an example:
when d0 = d4 led is OFF
when d0 > d4 led is green
when d0 < d4 led is red
(I might have the green/red states reversed)
My assumption regarding why Grant used this method is that it is a good indicator of CHANGE - which is the exact type of feedback the user needs to adjust probablility controls. The compromise is of course that it is very hard to determine the exact state of the 8-bit register from this 4-led display. But (i likewise assume) devoting an entire 8-led subassembly and the requisite panel real estate for a direct register display would have been more costly. The 'Goldberg jr.' that i gave Grant in July 2001 had an 8-led direct display but no clock or data indicators. I'm impressed with the efficiency and economy of the scheme Grant devised to get a lot of feed back to the user with just 8 lights and very low current consumption. Hope this helps you 'read' what your marvelous little gadget is doing.
I am having a hard time getting the noise ring to process external data. In particular, I have been unable to achieve the phased sound when patching another oscillator into the chance input jack. When I do this and monitor the main out I hear nothing at all. Has anyone else had this problem? What could I be doing wrong?
1. Make sure the "Change" pot is all the way up (LED full on).
2. Input a VCO 10 volt peak to peak triangle or sawtooth wave into "Chance In" jack.
3. Adjust "Chance" control so some LED signal is seen.
4. Monitor main output and play with VCO frequency and "Rate" setting.
Run an external audio signal of +/- 5 volts into the "Chance In" input jack. This is normalled to the white noise output.
Set the "Change" knob all the way on. Vary the "Chance" control knob to change the sound.
Also vary the "Rate" knob to change the sound. You can reduce the setting of the "Change" control knob as an experiment.
In order to avoid re-inventing the wheel, please read the circuit desciption Grant posted at:
http://www.wiard.com/1200/NR/Noise_Ring.html
i will be referring to the block diagram he posted.
regarding digital noise:
If we force a feature-by-feature comparison of the I.D. and the N.R, the one feature that the N.R. lacks is a 'conventional' digital noise source. The main and aux outputs of the N.R. are both digital noise , to be sure, but they are both variable in spectrum and controlled by the two CV vectors, "Change' & Chance'. This makes them a little different from conventionally produced digital noise sources (such as the now extinct MM5x37 chips).
The Blacet I.D. is a very full featured implementation of a tried and true, time-honored method of random voltage generation in analog modulars. To wit, a noise source (continuously variable between digital or analog) is 'snapshotted' by a sample hold at a voltage controlled sample rate and output as random steps. The pattern of these steps vary in amplitude according to the spectrum of the input noise and , in duration by the clock rate. Thus, the output steps are derived dirctly from the noise sources, analog , digital or some mix of both.
The Wiard N.R. uses analog noise at a basic source point in it's algorithm, but never directly. This noise is never sampled by an sample/hold circuit, in fact there are no sample/hold circuits in the N.R and this is a fundamental distinction. (It will help to consult the N.R. block diagram, at this point) You may already know how a shift register works but for anyone who doesn't, i'm going to use the analogy of a conveyer belt with room for 8 people....
In the N.R., analog noise is used to tickle the threshold of a comparator, the comparator flips on and off producing either 'someone' or 'no one'. depending on the state of the comparator. This person/non-person stands OFF the conveyer belt waiting for a signal. The signal comes from the clock. The clock is also a 2-state device. We'll call them 'tick' and 'tock'. Remember that the clock is not steady. It varies with a CV. This is important. When the clock is in a 'tock' state , nothing happens. The conveyer belt doesn't move and no one steps on. The N.R.'s output is static. But when the clock switches to "tick" the conveyer belt moves one step and if the comparator was tickled to it's 'someone' state, someone steps aboard. If it was in 'no one' state the conveyer moves one step with an empty place. On the next tick the conveyer lurches forward and if anyone was in the last (8th) position they get dumped off. Another thing happens at each tick, the DAC takes a snapshot of the pattern of occupied and unoccupied places on the conveyer, and based on that pattern it sends a voltage to the output, a different voltage for every different pattern, Thus as the two devices, comparator and clock, go on flickering , the conveyer gets loaded with different patterns that SHIFT on each tick. This cycling of patterns is the heart of the N.R.'s method, and this is very close to the classic function of a digital shift register.
But there are some twists! And one of the more brilliant twists that Grant conceived is depicted in the block digram by the line marked 'old data' feeding the "solid state switch' . This is controlled by the 'Change' control. As the 'Change' control vector decreases, the chances INCREASE that the passenger who was just dumped off the end of the conveyer will get another turn and move right back to the front of the conveyer again and prevents any 'new' passengers (from the flickering comparator) from boarding. The effect of this is a 'circular' buffer wherein the pattern repeats ad infinitum until 'new' passengers are re-introduced by increasing the change control. At slow clock rates this results in cycling patterns. At audio clock rates the effect is a clearly discernible pitch. The wonderful thing about this is that the change control vector is continuous and thus, at audio frequencies, random audio (noise) will start to organize itself into a pitched tone. The 'between states' are sublime (to my perverse ear, anyway) and if you descend into chaos again , when you morph to pitch the next time there's no guarantee that you'll get the same wave as before. Please forgive me for editorializing, but the resulting patterns are exquisite!!! i'm sorry to confess my fetish, but that's just the very definition of my personal idea of a good time!
To drag this screed back to the issue of comparison. The method of pattern generation just described is very different than the sample/hold method used by the I.D. (and MANY other RVG is modular synth history). Most importantly, this method yields a very different character of output patterns than a sample/hold-based design produces. The noise sources are never sampled directly and thus, the output SOUNDS different from sample/hold-based output. i've foolishly engaged in past disputes about whether this is can be called 'random' or not, and if it IS randow, how random is it? That's a semantic issue and a waste of time. The bottom line is that the noise ring yields MUSICALLY interesting patterns (to my ear) and that's what matters. In all fairness, Sample/holds yield interesting patterns too (i have 9 versions of them, at last count) but the noise ring's output is distinct from all of them. The other very important distinction is the effect of the ability to exercise a very fine level of control over the 'chance' and 'change' parameters. This is a unique and VERY powerful feature.
The Buchla "Sources of Uncertainty' is the seminal circuit that employs a similar use of noise (as a modulator of the sampled source, rather than the noise being the sampled source itself), and a recursive structure that can create suprisngly musical patterns in the name of UNCERTAINTY, which I think is a better term than RANDOMNESS.
When I use the term entropy I mean Shannon's measure of information entropy, not thermodynamic entropy (which uses a similar equation, the reason Shannon used the term "entropy"). Information entropy is just a histogram of the number of levels in a matrix of information, expressed as the number of bits needed to store that number of levels. If there are only two levels, you only need 1 bit to store it. If there are 4 levels, you need 2 bits to store the information and so on.
The original Buchla 266 presented control of the level entropy of the uncertainty source (from 1 to 6 bits). But there was no control over the frequency spectrum entropy (if you calculated the information entropy of the DFT). The Buchla 265 sample and hold presented control of the time spectrum entropy via the recursion control, but not the level entropy.
The Noise Ring provides both types of control, level entropy via the "Chance" control, and frequency spectrum entropy via the "Change" control.
I don't know if this is scientifically true, but it is believeable that the ear does both types of entropy measurements at a very fundimental level. The ear uses a kind of "battery" system to supply the ear, because blood flow would be too noisy. The ear uses "hairs" to sense both level and frequency information. IF an excited cell uses more "current" than a non-excited one, then the way the ear is structured, the information entropy is proportional to the "current draw" for the two different "hair" structures. One for levels (amplifier cells) and one for time spectrum entropy (cochlial cells). Higher information entropy excites more cells, which draw more "current".
Wow....thanks
I'll have to read this a couple of times to digest it fully.
I'll have to read this a couple of times to digest it fully.
My youtube modular music movies:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... type=&aq=f
-
newgreyarea
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:44 pm
- Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Wow! Thanks Babaluma via Ivo!!!
That clears up a bit of what it does, now I just need to know what the controls are doing . .
-Outs 1 + 2 are the same?
-Noise out is just noise?
- What do I use the "clock" out for?
- What is the "Ext Rate" knob doing?
- . . and the Switch next to it?
- . . . .and the jack next to that? is it an input or out? What type of signal?
- The jacks above the "Change & Chance" knobs are unattenuated CV control inputs?
That should do for now.
They need a "Noisering for dummies" manual or something!
Thanks!
-b
That clears up a bit of what it does, now I just need to know what the controls are doing . .
-Outs 1 + 2 are the same?
-Noise out is just noise?
- What do I use the "clock" out for?
- What is the "Ext Rate" knob doing?
- . . and the Switch next to it?
- . . . .and the jack next to that? is it an input or out? What type of signal?
- The jacks above the "Change & Chance" knobs are unattenuated CV control inputs?
That should do for now.
They need a "Noisering for dummies" manual or something!
Thanks!
-b
-
Babaluma
out 1 and 2 are different mathematical states. i think the main out has something like 256 possible values, whilst the aux out has only 16, or something like that. something to do with n to the power of 1, and n divided by one, similar to the buchla source of uncertainty. don't have my refernce texts here to look it up, sorry can't be clearer, but they most certainly are different, it should be easy to hear the difference if you plug them into a vco.
noise out is analogue white noise.
you use the clock out as a square wave oscillator in the audio range or a clock out in the sub audio range. use it to clock a sequencer or trigger an envelope etc.
the external rate knob controls the amount to which the input to the external rate jack affects the rate of the oscillator. if nothing is plugged into the jack it acts like a frequency control, from sub audio to audio.
can't answer your next two questions.
the last question: yes.
original wiard thread here:
viewtopic.php?t=5306
noise out is analogue white noise.
you use the clock out as a square wave oscillator in the audio range or a clock out in the sub audio range. use it to clock a sequencer or trigger an envelope etc.
the external rate knob controls the amount to which the input to the external rate jack affects the rate of the oscillator. if nothing is plugged into the jack it acts like a frequency control, from sub audio to audio.
can't answer your next two questions.
the last question: yes.
original wiard thread here:
viewtopic.php?t=5306
The switch select either the internal or external clock. If you use the "EXT RATE" the jack next to it provide external control of the rate of the internal clock.. . and the Switch next to it?
- . . . .and the jack next to that? is it an input or out? What type of signal?
If you use the "CLK IN" the jack provide input for the external clock.
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newgreyarea
- Super Deluxe Wiggler
- Posts: 1496
- Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:44 pm
- Location: Downtown Los Angeles
-
Babaluma
-
Babaluma
also, there's an amazing patch in allen strange's book, which is for the buchla SOU, but i have implemented it before on the noise ring. you can hear a sample of it if you go to cynthia webster's aleatoric music 2005 contest page and download my composition "bugbot's wedding":
http://www.cyndustries.com/bugmusic_vote_completed.cfm
i keep meaning to post a pic of the patch, it's amazing! it also features heavily in my track "at sea" that you can grab here:
http://hermetech.blogspot.com/2009/06/welcome.html
and a windchimey patch here:
http://darkflame.hermetech.net/Musick/B ... antern.mp3
http://www.cyndustries.com/bugmusic_vote_completed.cfm
i keep meaning to post a pic of the patch, it's amazing! it also features heavily in my track "at sea" that you can grab here:
http://hermetech.blogspot.com/2009/06/welcome.html
and a windchimey patch here:
http://darkflame.hermetech.net/Musick/B ... antern.mp3
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newgreyarea
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Babaluma
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Ivo Ivanov
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newgreyarea
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ST UF FLI N EAR
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newgreyarea
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I'm still learning something new about this booger every time I sit down with it! I love the sound of it when you get it in to audio territory. I wish it tracked well enough to be used as a proper osc. Does anyone have an Anti-Osc and does it sound like the Noisering . . . minus the noise stuff? Or do you know of an oscillator that does?
-b
-b
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DGTom
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I hope not!! The Anti Osc is an analog Tri Core VCO... the Noise Ring is a seris of digital pulses feeding a DAC!newgreyarea wrote:Does anyone have an Anti-Osc and does it sound like the Noisering . . . minus the noise stuff? Or do you know of an oscillator that does?-b
A shift register VCO could be pretty damned cool tho, totally possible, same basic idea of the Bi-N-Tic, but instead of the VCO core driving a counter / multiplexer have it clock the shift register
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newgreyarea
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Ooooh!! I've not read much on the Anit-Osc as I've not found much to read other than "more info to come" type things. Just hoping something could sound like that!
I had a few sequences going where the Noisering was tracking perfectly and then I'd try and tune it down an octave or something and could never get it to work. Boooo!!
I guess I'll just have to sample it and play the samples back through the modular.
-b
I had a few sequences going where the Noisering was tracking perfectly and then I'd try and tune it down an octave or something and could never get it to work. Boooo!!
I guess I'll just have to sample it and play the samples back through the modular.
-b
One setting I like is putting the chance low, and the change high, send the outputs to frequency of whatever module (filter, oscillator, etc), clock out to whatever envelope or slew, and you get repeating phrases of CV voltage that repeat a few times and change, repeat some, change, etc. Once in a while you get a cool little melody, so it's great for finding melodic chaos that you may never repeat the same phrase again. Especially fun through a quantizer, I use a Miniwave or A-156.
Not audio, but I highly recommend trying the noisering as a control signal and see if it's for you.
Not audio, but I highly recommend trying the noisering as a control signal and see if it's for you.
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newgreyarea
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Or just use an external VCO as a clock, this is how I do it, it's easier.I had a few sequences going where the Noisering was tracking perfectly and then I'd try and tune it down an octave or something and could never get it to work. Boooo!!
I guess I'll just have to sample it and play the samples back through the modular.