Matrix

BugBrand · Post by **BugBrand** » Wed Sep 28, 2016 2:17 pm

6FW.
I'll just cojoin two 3FW cases for prototyping, but will get new 6FW cases if it moves towards production (think 6FW could work for the long toothed StereoPEQ - so a useful new size case to get into production).

ear ear · Post by **ear ear** » Mon Oct 31, 2016 4:52 am

Would definitely buy one.

Inverting good for feedback explorations.

depth20 · Post by **depth20** » Thu Nov 10, 2016 5:27 pm

Yes! I've been looking for an active standalone matrixmixer for ages! Count me in!

shwanton · Post by **shwanton** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:15 am

Bumping the thread! I'm looking for a similar matrix mixer.

BugBrand · Post by **BugBrand** » Sat Mar 25, 2017 3:11 pm

Ah, it progressed and paused again - made 2 prototypes, but I personally wasn't feeling it with that current design approach.
I've been pretty happy with the panel layout approach, but the physical arrangements of the circuitry behind is quite tricky.

chrisdermo · Post by **chrisdermo** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:41 am

I'm guessing this is still on the backburner? Considering getting a metalbox 4x4 matrix mixer to use with the Bugs

BugBrand · Post by **BugBrand** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:49 am

I'm actually using my proto at the moment, but really just as a stereo mixer with 2 aux sends. I'm always tempted by matrix ideas, but never gel with them in practice.

Edit - realised I never put up a pic of the last proto, so here it is..
Kind of silly that I can design and build a whole prototype like this and then shelve it all - but I do learn along the way. Nice specs - balanced I/O, phase switches, quality components etc. But I would rather have more input channels, lose one output and turn the lower two into a L/R pair with pan controls.

chrisdermo · Post by **chrisdermo** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:04 am

Yep, I'd have grabbed that in a snap!

The 4x4 metalbox one feels kind of vanilla.... but looks to be the only available matrix mixer in frac at the moment.

otoskope · Post by **otoskope** » Wed Jan 03, 2018 2:29 pm

I could chime in, since I am a matrix junkie and I have the other prototype of this green wonder.

There is something special with a pure matrix, allowing any routing combination, not presupposing anything about how it should be used. That is great for feedback experiments, additive CV stuff, complex fx routing etc.

On the other hand, what you now describe, Tom, is more like a master mixer for the modular. It would indeed be convenient, but less a matrix. There are also matrix mixers centered around the LRpan paradigm, on all channels, of course.

I use mine mostly for fx routing in my analog fx modular (all bugs). But I have also used it as a master mixer for the modular a few times.

I have to agree that I work more and more with stero synthesis and processing, and then five is far to few, and mono sends wouldn't cut it either.

Where's that 8x8 matrix monster you were working on a few years ago, Tom? I would love such a thing.

Oh, and Allen & Heath's excellent matrix mixer, the Wizard 12m, has selectable mono or LRpan configurations for all channels - using the same knobs. I guess that complicates matters quite a bit. But it is very practical.

In your green matrix, Tom, I appreciate the input and output levels. Phase is not so crucial to me (except for CV, but I think it is AC coupled, isn't it?). It matters in some feedback configurations, of course.

I have said it before, and I say it again - I think you should start making this, Tom, in one form or another - also as a desktop unit, it would greatly help the "noise devices on a table" crowd, and they are quite a few. As well as make modularists happy!

indexofmetals · Post by **indexofmetals** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 12:46 am

I definitely would like to see a standalone matrix mixer. I'm using a buchla 205 clone with various pedals but something that utilised 1/4" jacks would be better.

On the modular side I always have 2 or 3 in my bugbrand setup and wouldn't want to live without them.

ninGiaBoom · Post by **ninGiaBoom** » Fri Jan 05, 2018 7:22 am

I'm also interested in a matrix mixer, because I gave up my old console (it was too big for my actual room) and I find it aways interesting...on the net I found this ones, extremely pricy probably because they're built with mic preamp and eq inside...

http://www.ex-o.co.jp/mat-55.htm

otherwise who produces matrix mixers nowadays??? they're quite rare as standalone because they're normally embedded in mixing consoles...or am I missing something?

OPT · Post by **OPT** » Fri Feb 02, 2018 5:56 pm

I’d definitely go for a desktop matrix mixer (active). Just what I’m looking for...

odditymedium · Post by **odditymedium** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 2:21 am

tom, are you still thinking about this?

i'd be in for a 8x8 (maybe standalone?) matrix mixer with both bananas and 1/4 jack inputs and outputs (is this even possible?). this would let me mix and match between modular ins/outs, and other gear coming in and out. this would mean 4 stereo ins with 4 stereo auxes (or 8 dual mono...)

also, could anyone explain exactly how you use your matrix mixers? or a bird's eye view of why they are so useful?

from this link: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/the-4x ... is.990222/ i kindof understand but not entirely...

BugBrand · Post by **BugBrand** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:04 am

I still have a love-hate relationship with matrix ideas.
Latest proposal is to keep it banana/modular - ie. not add the complexity of 1/4" / preamps etc.
I still personally live with an external 'proper' mixer next to my setups, so this design is much more focused on mixing within a modular setup.
Pure DC coupled with polarity switching / muting for each control - 6 in, 4 out::: (picture a little rough around the edges - labels / details etc)

odditymedium · Post by **odditymedium** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:11 am

tom, i am down for one. do you have it on the horizon sometime?

also, why do you dislike matrix ideas, i'm curious because maybe i'm being naive about how wonderful they are

chrisdermo · Post by **chrisdermo** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:22 am

Love this idea. Biggest thing for me with the old one was needing mutes per pot rather than per input. Perfect!
One of these with a couple of dual preamps, some processing modules and an output mixer could easily satisfy those that want to process non-bugs audio.

Personally I’d only want to matrix mix within the modular as well so this is great!

odditymedium · Post by **odditymedium** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:25 am

chris, which are the processing modules?

also tom, could this work towards quadraphony somehow?

lud · Post by **lud** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 5:29 am

That looks very awesome Tom!

chrisdermo · Post by **chrisdermo** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 10:33 am

odditymedium wrote:chris, which are the processing modules?

Any module that can be used to process / transform another sound

Filters, LPGs, Ring Mods, Bugcrushers, VCAs, Wavefolders, Oscillator FM, Crossover Filter, PT Delay, Spring Tanker etc etc

tIB · Post by **tIB** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:21 am

I really like the look of this - love sequencing with matrix mixers and imagine having mute per knob being interesting. Maybe my first new blue module, should it make it...

batchas · Post by **batchas** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:25 am

BugBrand wrote:...more focused on mixing within a modular setup.
Pure DC coupled with polarity switching / muting for each control - 6 in, 4 out:::

This is some kind of serious matrix mixer you have here

I do not use my old blue matrix mixer because of the difficulty to get the 0 point on the pot in the middle, but on this new layout, with these switches for polarity and mute for each pot, it looks IMHO like the best solution for a powerful module.
6 inputs each is a lot

Maybe you need the ability to mute the main outs too

Just kidding!

shred · Post by **shred** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 12:31 pm

not for me really, as I would prefer to use a standalone mixer for end of the signal path and i need more modulation sources to begin with... but chiming in to say it looks great and I still want one!

BugBrand · Post by **BugBrand** » Mon Aug 05, 2019 4:26 pm

Yeah, I hope to move forwards with it sometime soon. I do think it would be a useful block for bigger systems.

Quadraphonic - it is four channel, but I never really looked in to such usages.

6 input channels - I always think you need a couple for routing returns - four is never quite enough.

Mutes - I know - it is a lot of switches, but I think it is the natural way.

castano · Post by **castano** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:27 am

Quadraphonic - I have a Koma poltergeist
but would like it to be in Bugbrand format!
I like the idea of the matrix mixer

BugBrand · Post by **BugBrand** » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:32 pm

Proto boards ordered at least..

MOD WIGGLER

MOD WIGGLER

Matrix