How Great Are Mungo Modules?

fisherking111 · Post by **fisherking111** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:12 pm

Owners of the g0, d0, w0 and any others here...

It seems to me that this company might be making a superior quality of sound in their digital modules, rivaling the "sonic clarity" or "precision" I've only heard from Modcan modules (synthtech and harvestman, though I love, just don't sound as "crisp" as what I've heard from demos and live a performance of some mungo kit).

That being said, they seem a bit exorbitantly priced, and the design on their faceplates seems a bit lacking (IMO) and the manuals are quite arcane and don't even explain some of the key features.

Put all that together, and to me it just doesn't at all seem worth it... unless they really do inspire you to make music you would have never otherwise been able to make or even have thought of making...

Is this the case for you Mungo users?

or are the "just" really great sounding expensive digital modules?

(400 for a Braids vs. 600 for w0/530 for a Phonogene or 800 for a g0/etc.)

sb · Post by sb » Thu Oct 10, 2013 11:59 pm

I have a couple of Mungos (g0). Nothing else comes close to doing what they do and compared to their closest competitor i think they're worth the $$$

Neo · Post by **Neo** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:02 am

I just moved my G0 last night and was marveling at the build quality behind the panel. The faceplates are indeed crappy, with cryptic icons that have me frequently consulting the minimalist documentation. But afaik nothing does what the G0 does, and the sound is great. Having said that, I wish it had more grain controls, perhaps like the chaos control on Grainshift. This seems to be the downside of the almost uniform hardware design, 3 cv inputs each with attenuation and offset, where in some cases perhaps a 4th cv would make the module more worth the outlay. The zoom feature is good and bad. It's nice to be able to get fine control, but I'd be just as happy using other modules for that and do away with the slightly confusing "what the heck is this knob set to?". Overall worth the

if you can spare it. I have absolutely no regrets, it's a great module.

amnesia · Post by **amnesia** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:09 am

Neo wrote:I just moved my G0 last night and was marveling at the build quality behind the panel. The faceplates are indeed crappy, with cryptic icons that have me frequently consulting the minimalist documentation. But afaik nothing does what the G0 does, and the sound is great. Having said that, I wish it had more grain controls, perhaps like the chaos control on Grainshift. This seems to be the downside of the almost uniform hardware design, 3 cv inputs each with attenuation and offset, where in some cases perhaps a 4th cv would make the module more worth the outlay. The zoom feature is good and bad. It's nice to be able to get fine control, but I'd be just as happy using other modules for that and do away with the slightly confusing "what the heck is this knob set to?". Overall worth the if you can spare it. I have absolutely no regrets, it's a great module.

I think there is a g0 expander on the way

Summa · Post by **Summa** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:16 am

amnesia wrote:
Neo wrote:I just moved my G0 last night and was marveling at the build quality behind the panel. The faceplates are indeed crappy, with cryptic icons that have me frequently consulting the minimalist documentation. But afaik nothing does what the G0 does, and the sound is great. Having said that, I wish it had more grain controls, perhaps like the chaos control on Grainshift. This seems to be the downside of the almost uniform hardware design, 3 cv inputs each with attenuation and offset, where in some cases perhaps a 4th cv would make the module more worth the outlay. The zoom feature is good and bad. It's nice to be able to get fine control, but I'd be just as happy using other modules for that and do away with the slightly confusing "what the heck is this knob set to?". Overall worth the if you can spare it. I have absolutely no regrets, it's a great module.
I think there is a g0 expander on the way

That's great news because if it ain't it has to go. I use a lot granulation patches in SuperCollider and compared to what software can do this is not the parts of granular synthesis that gets me going. The new grainshift is even further away from that. But there's of course fun to be had with the g0 but so far it's way to expensive for what it does. I was especially disappointed about the live processing possibilities, there's only one cv and a knob for that and generally delivers the same results in different pitch.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:22 am

i have a d0. there is a learning curve to the UI even w/ just a few controls. the Zoom is kinda mandatory.

at times i've thought it was broken. at other times i had accidental awesome things happen and noise.

i've probably been annoying John (mungo) w/random emails here or there trying to understand the interactions and "limitations" of the d0.

at longer delay times when using modulation there is noise injected into the signal. it's not constant stream of noise.. more like the input signal gets turned into a kind of digital hash like noise. it's kind of cool on certain things.. so this is why the zoom is important (once you figure it out). you can dial in super short delay times with modulation and no noise. it's pristine sounding delay at times.

i don't know why i've had such a hill to climb with this module. it's just different. hopefully i'll have an 'ah ha' moment and all will be well with a love affair with it. if not i'll be throwing money at the tiptop/serge WAD whenever that happens...

i haven't heard the others though a friend has the g0 and likes it a lot.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:46 am

regarding the zoom.. i understand the economy of having one zoom that can be used w/multiple modules but i think i'd prefer a wider panel and some range switches or a coarse/fine knob and range switches.

i've had to count to ten a few times w/the zoom panel. i can't for the life of me figure out how to consistently zoom _out_ and restore the knobs to full value and then dial in a new sweet spot and zoom in on it.

Neo · Post by **Neo** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:23 am

I've got a standard 3 position switch to replace the momentary zoom switch. Haven't tried it yet but hopefully it will let me stay zoomed out so the knobs all mean what they say.

If there's an expander in the works I hope it provides control of grain density, pitch spread and time spread. Then the G0 would be truly awesome.

suthnear · Post by **suthnear** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:46 am

I have the d0 and g0 and love both, but do agree that zoom can be a real head scratcher because it applies to everything (cv amounts included). This is particularly the case with the d0 where it is possible to get it into a state where none of the knobs do anything. On the other hand, because you don't always know where you're going, the modules encourage experimentation. I found some sounds in the the d0 the other night that I've never heard before from anything and I'm not sure I'll ever be able to make again

I'd definitely like to know more about the g0 expander

Summa · Post by **Summa** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:16 am

Neo wrote: If there's an expander in the works I hope it provides control of grain density, pitch spread and time spread. Then the G0 would be truly awesome.

+1

jnlkrt · Post by **jnlkrt** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 7:12 am

ignatius wrote:i have a d0. there is a learning curve to the UI even w/ just a few controls. the Zoom is kinda mandatory.

at times i've thought it was broken. at other times i had accidental awesome things happen and noise.

i've probably been annoying John (mungo) w/random emails here or there trying to understand the interactions and "limitations" of the d0.

[...]

i don't know why i've had such a hill to climb with this module. it's just different.

this sums up my experience with the d0, too. i've been mailing a ton with John in order to get things working. he has been helpful but very short and abrupt at times.

i had some sound issues which he referred to being 'normal' at first (even though they were really bad), and later i found out that myself they vanished when i connected the zoom switch instead of using the jumper bridge as described in his documentation. he did not respond to these findings of mine, neither did he mention this when i asked about the issues in the first place.

he definitely provided support and responded to my mails, but i feel like there is a huge gap between the specialities of his interface and concepts on on side and his documentation and didactical approach on the other. i provided some feedback to him in regards of the troublesome parts of the user experience (documentation, built quality of the panel / user interface, zoom functionality), and i am not so sure if he even cares since he never responded to that.

here's some specific thoughts, findings and things that John pointed me at (about the d0):

the control ranges are HUGE, and allow for all kinds of weird settings which no other echo/delay device would even allow. it's a very raw and open design. what one needs to understand that even though it has hifi specs, the control ranges allow for a lot of error. common 'hifi' digital delays just block out these errors by restricting the ranges and settings. this way one can easily come to the conclusion that the d0 is indeed not hifi, since it allows you to do all kinds of setting which essentially are just plain wrong (in a traditional echo and mod fx context).

the slew rate is super essential to get a clean sound. if i understand correctly, putting voltage control over the delay time without all kinds of glitches is a huge challenge in general. slewing the control signal is pretty much mandatory, so most manufacturers put it in the background at fixed or automated settings. the d0 gives you complete control over that, and thus allows for lots of errors.

most of the time when the d0 was behaving erratic, i could solve it by finding the slew rate sweet spot for the current application. even with audiorate modulation it often help to introduce a bit of slew. there is also definitely a relation between the correct slew rate and the delay time range.

on a related note, the attenuator settings for the delay time CV inputs are crucial even when there is nothing connected. if you have them turned up a lot (which can easily happen accidentally due to the zoom settings) and the slew very low/off, then you essentially have a random high freq modulation of the delay time, caused by the amplified noise of the input. this causes all kinds of glitches and a higher noise floor.

in the end, i found some of the patches i did with the d0 were really rewarding, but the playability and a direct interface of my instrument have top priority. i want to see where my knobs are at right away, ESPECIALLY with digital modules. if there a lot of fiddling around and finding sweet spots and double checking generic knobs, than i'd rather do something in Max and create a dedicated interface with Lemur.

there definitely is no alternative out there in regards to audiorate modulation and audiorate delay times, and i was looking for something like that ever since i started the modular. however, as mentioned above the interface is very important to me, so i guess my search continues. i sold the d0 to Navs, and am really looking forward to what he will do with it and what his findings are.

narwhal · Post by **narwhal** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:09 am

There seems to be a real gap in the market for interesting granular/spectral eurorack modules. Would be great to see someone like WMD step up and have a crack at it.

matttech · Post by **matttech** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:12 am

ignatius wrote: i don't know why i've had such a hill to climb with this module. it's just different. hopefully i'll have an 'ah ha' moment and all will be well with a love affair with it. if not i'll be throwing money at the tiptop/serge WAD whenever that happens...

if it makes you feel any better, i got pretty damn confused by the Modcan Dual Delay, and thought it was broken a couple of times

turned out it was me getting confused by various things - mainly SYNC-related stuff

tommaso · Post by **tommaso** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:27 am

matttech wrote:turned out it was me getting confused by various things - mainly SYNC-related stuff

sync issues even with delays hey Matt!

you've something wrong with the sync function

tommaso · Post by **tommaso** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:27 am

digidandy · Post by **digidandy** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:49 am

I have the g0, and so far think it's a very interesting module, though some of the control implementation is way too esoteric. I don't really mind the "discover sound as you stumble around in the dark" approach, but, as per another poster, I *still* can't get figure out zoom properly. That may be a design flaw on my part (i.e. my brain), but I suspect it's a combination.

Sound quality is very good, though, way better than the phonogene, for instance - and you can load much longer samples (about 11 secs at 44.1khz, I think). Loading time is slow, however, so you have to plan what you do if you want to do use it live.

I am also having a hard time integrating it with my other controllers (LFOs, Function, Wogglebug etc.), I guess because of the voltage differences.

I have decided to record a simple sample where I count to four, then spend a weekend playing around with that sample to get a more predictable working routine going with the g0. At least with a simple "1 2 3 4" I'll know where the sample playback resides at any given time. It needs to get more transparent for me.

matttech · Post by **matttech** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:55 am

tommaso wrote:
matttech wrote:turned out it was me getting confused by various things - mainly SYNC-related stuff
sync issues even with delays hey Matt!

you've something wrong with the sync function

you're right there..............

am finding modular pretty tedious in general these days

fisherking111 · Post by **fisherking111** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:21 am

thanks for all the info friends.

So, it sounds like all my hypotheses were correct about the d0, g0

Has anyone tried the w0 though? I'm interested to hear feedback about this. It is, according to John, the digital oscillator (waveform sampler?) that can do things no other VCO has been able to do before, since you can load any waveform (but not meant for wavetable synthesis, which the g0 can do) and modulate or control it's phase?

I read up on this one, and emailed him a few times before about it, and I'm still lost.

Anyone praising the merits of the w0?

how about the f0, m0, n0, and v0 (the only modular vocoder I believe and has a very unique bandpass filter)?

One thing I think, if anyone should do a reverb module I think it's this guy! I bet he'd come up with something crazy (if it's possible).

tommaso · Post by **tommaso** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 11:22 am

matttech wrote:
tommaso wrote:
matttech wrote:turned out it was me getting confused by various things - mainly SYNC-related stuff
sync issues even with delays hey Matt!

you've something wrong with the sync function

you're right there..............

am finding modular pretty tedious in general these days

it will pass..just play your old guitar and a maracas for a couple of days..something like la cucaracha or la bamba

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:52 pm

GREAT post jnlkrt

that's basically everything i've encountered with the d0 as well. it's a shame things w/the interface couldn't be more clear.

the manual/user guide is about as useful as the front panel.

i haven't 100% made up my mind about it. i'll give it some more time but generally leaning towards selling it... though last night when tweaking it i came across some really happy accidents that sounded amazing.

goiks · Post by **goiks** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:16 pm

g0 sounds great.

ui allows for a great range of control but is highly annoying and difficult to get repeatable results with. i'd probably trade range for usability on this one.

i only write with the hope that i might be one more point of data for the designer to consider - add me to the list of of people that find the zoom/ui/documentation lacking. :torches and pitchforks:

muffin · Post by **muffin** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:30 pm

Man, i have so much gear lust for all of the mungo stuff, but unfortunately i'm at the stage where i still need some basic function to add to my setup and can't justify spending so much cash. honestly i have to plunk down money for a bunch more "boring" utility modules before i can get this stuff. I only hope they're still available and i have any money left by the time i get there.

taylor12k · Post by **taylor12k** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:37 pm

i have a g0 and have gotten some beautiful results with it... in all honesty, i feel its over-priced.. however, there isn't really anything like it in euroland... so it's sort of the price you have to pay.. for now.

yes, the phonogene, and tyme sefari and addac and such all are similar, but they're not exactly like the g0 (and nor is the g0 exactly like them).. but the g0 has half the functionality of a phonogene at double the cost ... and it's harder to use and poorly supported and documented.

i'm glad to own it.. but something better will come along at a more reasonable price. euro is still wide open for samplers and at some point someone will nail it.

ignatius · Post by **ignatius** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 1:41 pm

taylor12k wrote: but something better will come along at a more reasonable price. euro is still wide open for samplers and at some point someone will nail it.

fingers crossed

Summa · Post by **Summa** » Fri Oct 11, 2013 2:21 pm

I hope all you Mungo owners found this explanation of the Zoom function, it's real simple if you get it right.. but, as I posted earlier, it's not a module for me..

http://mungo.com.au/eurozoom.html

MOD WIGGLER

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How Great Are Mungo Modules?

How Great Are Mungo Modules?