SilentWay on Linux

Discussion and support for Expert Sleepers' Silent Way software and hardware.
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phasebash
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SilentWay on Linux

Post by phasebash »

I recently migrated to Linux for reasons unrelated to music production, but am sorely missing SilentWay.

Has anyone reported success running SilentWay on Linux with Wine and the dssi-vst bridge? If not, is it within the realm of possibility to compile to dssi/lv2 (I'm not sure if SilentWay is built using Juce) or one day perhaps offer a native build?

I understand if not many people have asked for this yet.
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os
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Post by os »

Silent Way does not use JUCE.

A Linux version is highly unlikely, simply due to time constraints.
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/

New album "Four Drones for Saxophone and Modular Synthesizer" out now:
https://andrew-ostler.bandcamp.com/albu ... ynthesizer
hreggi89
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Post by hreggi89 »

Hi.

I'm new to Linux and I'm trying to figure out the same problem, how to use dssi-vst to bridge the Silent Way Windows VST. I see this post is a year old, did you have any luck phasebash ?

I'm running Ubuntu Studio 13.10 with Bitwig Studio and will upgrade to 14.04 once it's released next Thursday and I will also spend some time on trying to figure this out during Easter. I'll post here if I get the plugin running.
hems
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Post by hems »

Not having a linux version is a real deal breaker.

Product manufactories like ES and cycling74, must start thinking about the future ( linux ), and not only the preset ( osx ) and the past ( windows ).

I know the market share for linux isn't big, but perhaps it isn't cause the commercial apps still afraid of wetting their fit.

Once they give it a try, who knows, it will be a sensation ( :



Not to mention, bitwig is out now so the gates are wide open for someone wanting to work with an operational system that is not powered by an Mp3 Player, like iTunes OS, ops, i meant, OSX.
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Post by hreggi89 »

Hi, just wanted to give a little update.

It seems to me that there is no way to run Silent Way on Linux with Windows Emulation at the moment (although running it on a Win DAW like Reaper will probably work, but I haven't tested that yet). When I run any of them in Carla2 beta (from KXStudio), I see the plugins running with the right connections in the Patchbay, indicating that atleast some part is running fine, but there is no GUI and no controls available.

I would like to see ES do some work to get their plugins (i.e. SW since I already bought it) running with Wine, like Cockos do with their plugins and Reaper. Running Wine in "realtime" has become a breeze with distros/repos like KXStudio.
Last edited by hreggi89 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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bsmith
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Post by bsmith »

hems wrote:Product manufactories like ES and cycling74, must start thinking about the future ( linux ), and not only the preset ( osx ) and the past ( windows ).
I dunno, I'm still pretty nervous about the y2k bug around the corner. Just got back from seeing sixth sense at the movies - that M. Night Shyamalan and his clever plot twists, I tell ya...
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Post by hreggi89 »

Hi, just wanted to give an update.

I've still had no luck running SW under wine, but it does run in Reaper, though the GUI doesn't render right, you can tweak all the parameters using Reaper's interface. That way you'd still be inside a Windows emulated environment, but it is connectable through Jack to Ardour, Bitwig and anything really.
But there is an alternative for those looking for simple CV control on a linux system. A gentleman by the name of Aurélien Leblond has been porting the Alsa (a linux audio system) Modular Synth to lv2 (open plugin format). There is a plugin in the ams-lv2 package called ControlToCV which translates midi control signal to CV, so your DC-coupled audio interface can send CV out from wherever you route it.
I'm using it running the KXStudio linux image, I've got Carla running the controltocv plugin and I'm controlling it through Bitwig. In Bitwig is a plugin called Jackass that outputs a midi channel's input signal to Jack midi (because Bitwig's midi doesn't connect to Jack midi yet), in Carla I route the midi to controltocv, select which midi parameter the plugin should listen to and then route the CV to any output on my Motu Ultralite mk1. I've only managed to get it to send control signal, no triggers are gate, but this is a start AND a free and open alternative.

Now of course I would also like to see ES port their plugins to Linux, not only because they have a good product that I would like to use, but I also think the whole idea of Linux is very similar to modular synthesis; make a system that works well and make it open/connectable to anything. And if you are into modular synths and don't use "normal OSs" alot, why should you have to pay for a Mac or Windows license in order to run simple CV from your audio interface? Not that it's ESs problem, but for people who like to overcome technical issues and simplify their lives, Linux OSs are just perfect; free, open and stable and encourage the user to explore the internal works instead of locking them away.
If someone finds a plugin/way to send triggers and gates using Jack I'd be happy to hear about it.
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Taika-Kim
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Post by Taika-Kim »

Hmm, this is bad news... I have been trying different Linux audio distributions in the las days, and was hoping to get SW to work.

Aren´t gate signals just pulses? Just send high enough DC pulses, should that not do the trick? But good news about that open source alternative.
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Taika-Kim
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Post by Taika-Kim »

Any progress on that ALSA synth? I finally settled on KXStudio as well, since just couldn't get JACK to start in Ubuntu Studio. Now things seems incredibly smooth with Bitwig, shame about the Linux driver hierarchy, I still don´t nearly get how all the different drivers are related, even after reading a "tutorial" :P

Anyway I will look into this also at some point and see what I can come up with.


I think now that both Windows and OSx are heading for the mobile devices, the future of the desktops studio might well be with Linux. Bitwig certainly is a big boost for the OS.
https://aavepyora.bandcamp.com/

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hems
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Post by hems »

hems wrote:Not having a linux version is a real deal breaker.

Product manufactories like ES and cycling74, must start thinking about the future ( linux ), and not only the preset ( osx ) and the past ( windows ).

I know the market share for linux isn't big, but perhaps it isn't cause the commercial apps still afraid of wetting their fit.

Once they give it a try, who knows, it will be a sensation ( :



Not to mention, bitwig is out now so the gates are wide open for someone wanting to work with an operational system that is not powered by an Mp3 Player, like iTunes OS, ops, i meant, OSX.
lol sometimes i get surprised by how bad my writing can get on a smoky night
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Post by bgribble »

I do a fair amount of Linux audio coding. I don't know exactly how ES implements the Silent Way mux/demux strategy but there aren't that many possible choices. It's probably using frequency division multiplexing, which is a bandpass filter + a set of ring modulators, basically.

If there aren't any special twists I would guess this could be implemented in a weekend as a set of standalone command-line JACK clients, basically one for the mux direction and one for the demux.

Is there any white-paper type treatment of how Silent Way works, that's detailed enough to allow a third party to implement something compatible?
hems
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Post by hems »

that would be wicked!

:yay:

not sure how far this would be from making it supercollider compatible, controlling ES modules from linux, specially using supercollider would be such a bless!!

:hail:
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Waz
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Post by Waz »

hems wrote:Not having a linux version is a real deal breaker.

Product manufactories like ES and cycling74, must start thinking about the future ( linux ), and not only the preset ( osx ) and the past ( windows ).

I know the market share for linux isn't big, but perhaps it isn't cause the commercial apps still afraid of wetting their fit.

Once they give it a try, who knows, it will be a sensation ( :


Not to mention, bitwig is out now so the gates are wide open for someone wanting to work with an operational system that is not powered by an Mp3 Player, like iTunes OS, ops, i meant, OSX.
Windows is definitely not "the past". I would say apple's recent decisions both in design and software will cause it some major headaches and put it into that category. I've been running solely in a linux environment for 3 years and in dual boot for well over a decade. Recently, I had to install windows 10 to use Ableton. W10 is pretty solid, well designed, and stable. I easily have way less headaches than in the linux environment. Things just work when you plug them in. No editing config files and installing binaries/packages from all over the internet. With that said, I still use Linux for my day to day stuff, but it has a LOOOONG way to go if it wants to compete with W10, or OSX in the general population. For music people especially, JACK is a fucking nightmare to work with. For power-users, multi-desktop monitor support is just terrible. This is in an age when the general population is starting to use multi-monitor systems for work and play. For gamers, Linux is another nightmare. I have over 200 linux games in my steam library. I think 40 or 50 work properly. The other 150 need some pretty heavy editing of config files due to my multi-monitor setup. Not to mention the headaches that come from developers who abandon their linux ports. General end-users don't want to run scripts, edit configs, search for dependencies, and work in the command line.
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Post by hems »

yes you are right, i shouldn't have posted my personal opinions on the thread since it really doesn't add much.

what i really meant is: i really would love the idea of Expert Sleepers running on linux.

peace!
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Post by bgribble »

Hey Linux fans, in another thread I asked for documentation from ES. They kindly sent me a link that looks like it has the algorithms needed to connect to (at least) the ES-4, ES-5, and ESX-8CV devices. :nana:

Also -- the code they pointed me to is source for PureData externals, so it might Just Work on Linux already. There's nothing special or OS dependent about the code, trust me. If you are a bit handy with compiling C code from source, you might give it a go. It's not exactly Release Ready (tm) code, as there aren't makefiles for all the externals, but it's just one C++ file per device so....

Here's the GitHub repository they linked in the other thread: https://github.com/expertsleepersltd/externals
hems
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Post by hems »

bgribble wrote:Hey Linux fans, in another thread I asked for documentation from ES. They kindly sent me a link that looks like it has the algorithms needed to connect to (at least) the ES-4, ES-5, and ESX-8CV devices. :nana:

Also -- the code they pointed me to is source for PureData externals, so it might Just Work on Linux already. There's nothing special or OS dependent about the code, trust me. If you are a bit handy with compiling C code from source, you might give it a go. It's not exactly Release Ready (tm) code, as there aren't makefiles for all the externals, but it's just one C++ file per device so....

Here's the GitHub repository they linked in the other thread: https://github.com/expertsleepersltd/externals
great stuff, so simple that is complicated!
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Post by DREIPOLAR »

ive been using linux + es3 + gate expander from day one and under linux for a few years now and produce all my music that way. i have compiled the gate expander external for pure data and am sequencing directly through pure data which is as easy as sending a numeric value to an audio output. i think you could also compile the midi expander external under linux but havent done it yet.

sadly there seems to be no effort to get silent way running in linux from expert sleepers side despite numerous requests of the growing linux community. you can run it in reaper but then its missing half of the graphic interface. porting it to juice shouldnt be that difficult but i doubt there are plans for it.
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Post by ideasculptor »

hreggi89 wrote:Hi, just wanted to give an update.

I've still had no luck running SW under wine, but it does run in Reaper, though the GUI doesn't render right, you can tweak all the parameters using Reaper's interface. That way you'd still be inside a Windows emulated environment, but it is connectable through Jack to Ardour, Bitwig and anything really.
But there is an alternative for those looking for simple CV control on a linux system. A gentleman by the name of Aurélien Leblond has been porting the Alsa (a linux audio system) Modular Synth to lv2 (open plugin format). There is a plugin in the ams-lv2 package called ControlToCV which translates midi control signal to CV, so your DC-coupled audio interface can send CV out from wherever you route it.
I'm using it running the KXStudio linux image, I've got Carla running the controltocv plugin and I'm controlling it through Bitwig. In Bitwig is a plugin called Jackass that outputs a midi channel's input signal to Jack midi (because Bitwig's midi doesn't connect to Jack midi yet), in Carla I route the midi to controltocv, select which midi parameter the plugin should listen to and then route the CV to any output on my Motu Ultralite mk1. I've only managed to get it to send control signal, no triggers are gate, but this is a start AND a free and open alternative.

Now of course I would also like to see ES port their plugins to Linux, not only because they have a good product that I would like to use, but I also think the whole idea of Linux is very similar to modular synthesis; make a system that works well and make it open/connectable to anything. And if you are into modular synths and don't use "normal OSs" alot, why should you have to pay for a Mac or Windows license in order to run simple CV from your audio interface? Not that it's ESs problem, but for people who like to overcome technical issues and simplify their lives, Linux OSs are just perfect; free, open and stable and encourage the user to explore the internal works instead of locking them away.
If someone finds a plugin/way to send triggers and gates using Jack I'd be happy to hear about it.
I just really enjoyed this post, because of the way in which it describes how I can use several layers of emulation and marginally functional products in order to achieve a fraction of the functionality I'd enjoy in a commercial OS, all in order to "overcome technical issues and simplify my life." Personally, I don't use linux for making music precisely because of that kind of thing, and I likely never will. I don't even use windows for much the same reason. So long as I am chasing down how to get hardware or software working on my platform of choice, I'm not making music, which defeats the whole point of having a computer in my studio in the first place. There was a time when I enjoyed building my own PC hardware and spending weeks or even months getting everything up and running to my satisfaction in Linux. Then I realized I had much better things to do with my time and bought my first Mac in 2003 or 4 (since leaving the platform for win95 in 1995 and then BSD and Linux in 1997) and I haven't looked back since. And except for a brief excursion into a hackintosh, I haven't had to waste my time fighting with my computer to get things to work ever since.
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Re:

Post by Lanky Skills »

os wrote: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:29 am Silent Way does not use JUCE.

A Linux version is highly unlikely, simply due to time constraints.
Hi OS

Is this still the case?

I switched to Linux this year and the ES9 works perfectly in Bitwig using ALSA really simple and easy to set up, my ES-5 is not working as silentway still has no Linux VST plugin.

I have tried setting up the bridges via wine but its just not working for me.

Cheers
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Re: SilentWay on Linux

Post by os »

VCV Rack has a VST version, and an ES-5 encoder.
http://www.expert-sleepers.co.uk/

New album "Four Drones for Saxophone and Modular Synthesizer" out now:
https://andrew-ostler.bandcamp.com/albu ... ynthesizer
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Re: SilentWay on Linux

Post by Lanky Skills »

os wrote: Mon Dec 20, 2021 5:27 am VCV Rack has a VST version, and an ES-5 encoder.
Thanks for your reply :tu:
VCV is great but I already have a eurorack so I have little need for a paid emulator ;)
Much cheaper to sell the ES-5 and buy a CV.OCD :slapfight:

Cheers anyway
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Re: SilentWay on Linux

Post by Lanky Skills »

Got it working in the end but without the Text on the Silentway plugin! I had to modify the plugin settings by guessing.

I used the YABridge, wineHQ staging and silentway VST3 (VST2 made bitwig hang but the VST3 launched/installed the copy protection into wine which stops the hanging on both versions).

The only thing that's annoying is that YABridge keeps sending nagging notifications to modify my memory settings on bitwigs exit, I have a untouched working system using Ubuntu LTS / ES-9 in Bitwig directly using ALSA no need for the nags! I will probably look at this later.

Expert Sleepers are such I great company, hopefully they will make the silentway plugins into Linux VSTs.

Cheers
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