Total noob looking to start a Euro video rig :)

[Arturo00]

Hey guys, I’ve been thinking of building a little Eurorack video synth rig with my extra 3U Goikes skiff. I really have no clue what I’ll need and what the essentials of a video rig are, so I figured I’d ask here. I’m hoping to be able to overlap with my Euro synth rig as much as possible by using modules for both systems for modulation and syncing/triggering. Ultimately I’d like for the two to be in sync, so changes in the audio rig will affect the video rig. The main purpose (for now) of this rig is for live video manipulation to go along with my audio Euro rig.
 
Aside from modules, what else would you guys suggest I invest in? I have an old crappy 3M projector. I’d need to get a camera for live footage and an external video mixer to mix between a live feed and a video stream from a laptop or iPad? Or is there a module that I can use for mixing purposes. Scanners, converters, filters, modulators. It’s pretty overwhelming when you’re starting from scratch!
 
I saw some of the overlapping modules that can be used for both systems. I guess what I’m hoping for is a little insight on what a good starters video synth rig would be. I watched some videos and am thoroughly impressed with what’s available and some of the work that some of you guys are doing. Is there a starters kit available anywhere?
 
I’m really starting with virtually no idea of what’s required. I’ll definitely be getting one of those Triple Video Multimode Filter. I’m going to start with a budget of $2000 for now (just for modules) and work from there.
 
As a side note, I work for a company that designs high end videoconference systems so I have access to Kramer, Extron, Gefen, and plenty more.

Thanks in advance!!!
 

[lizlarsen]

Hello Arturo! First off, if you're just looking for voltage-controlled processing and want painless compatibility, check out Dave Jones' Mini Video Image Processor, it's a standalone solution for $599.

If you're wanting to get into the LZX modular stuff, then there are a lot of ways you can go and a $2000 budget is a good place to start. First off, you'll need Video Sync Generator and Color Video Encoder at a minimum. That lets you get a single monochrome video source into the video synth for colorization and processing. What you add after that... any of our modules will be useful for you in this context. They all represent primitive processing steps that can be used in a multitude of ways. We have several out now and several others coming out over the next couple months.

Triple Video Fader & Key Generator is pretty essential, and so is Video Blending Matrix. I'd look at those in addition to the TVMF you already want. Voltage Bridge is the most straightforward way to exchange Euro modulators back and forth between the LZX modules.

So, one way you could go...

Color Video Encoder
Video Sync Generator
Triple Video Multimode Filter
Video Blending Matrix
Voltage Bridge
Sandin IP Function Generator

That puts you at about $1950. If you want more traditional keying and colorizer options, go with the Fader/Key Generator instead of the filter.

As far as "syncing it up" with your modular rig.... just use the same LFOs and Envelopes you're using in your audio patch, and send them to modulate colors, thresholds and CV inputs on the various video modules (via the Voltage Bridge.)

If you wait for the Sandin IP Amplitude Classifier and the LZX Video Colorspace Modulator, those will be some other good options for small processing setups too.

[Arturo00]

I noticed that you didn't suggest I get a Video Waveform Generator. I assume that's because I already have LFOs and Oscillators in my current audio rig? What are the benefits to your VWGs then say, my Vulcan Modulator...other then the ability to sync the frame rates.

[lizlarsen]

I noticed that you didn't suggest I get a Video Waveform Generator. I assume that's because I already have LFOs and Oscillators in my current audio rig?

Right. You stated you were mostly interested in processing an external video. If you were doing pattern synthesis, one or two VWGs would be absolutely essential. VWGs (and Video Ramps) are still very useful for external processing, just not as vital as the others I mentioned, since you have external CV sources to feed in already (assuming a $2000 starter budget.)

What are the benefits to your VWGs then say, my Vulcan Modulator...other then the ability to sync the frame rates.

That, the 0-1V outputs and the frequency range are the main differences. If you're just going to be using them as LFOs or audio-rate modulators anyway, there is no other significant advantage.

[Arturo00]

Ok. Sounds good.

The Video Sync Generator is for getting video into the system right? And then the Colour Video Encoder is for Composite or s-video output to whatever else is down the chain, with all other modules somewhere in between?

I guess at this point I have to make sure I have enough space/current in my 104HP skiff.

[lizlarsen]

The Video Sync Generator is for getting video into the system right? And then the Colour Video Encoder is for Composite or s-video output to whatever else is down the chain, with all other modules somewhere in between?

That's the basic idea! The Video Sync Generator's primary purpose however is to provide sync to an entire video synthesizer system. There can be only one VSG in a system, since it is the master sync source. By patching external video into it, you aren't just getting a buffered output of that video feed to patch thru the other modules -- you're also slaving the entire LZX system to the timing of that external device.

[Arturo00]

Great information!

So, aside from the modules suggested, are there any other external pieces of equipment that are necessary? Again, I have a projector and will likely get some sort of camera/video source.

BTW, I've been watching a bunch of your videos (among others), they're extremely informative.

[lizlarsen]

A video mixer is always a useful thing to have around, but not essential. There are all sorts of consumer-level proc amps and video gadgets to be found secondhand on eBay that are fun. A nice CRT monitor is likewise good to have. You may also want a capture device (there are some recent threads about this.)

[Arturo00]

Argh! My work just threw out a small CRT monitor. Maybe it's still lying around.

Out of curiosity, do I have the proper modules that will allow me to do what's going on in this thread? viewtopic.php?t=52968

Can you achieve that sort of thing live or is it a process that requires multiple passes of processed video?

[lizlarsen]

That's a whole different beast -- you'll need a vector monitor -- there are a few threads around that discuss it. You're going to want Video Ramps in addition to what I outlined above.

[Arturo00]

What do you guys think of this video mixer:

Panasonic WJ-MX12



I'm seeing a ton of them for sale as low as $200. My only issue is that it's only 2 channels. Other then that, it looks like it has everything I'd need at a pretty decent price.

Anyone have experience with them, or know of a reason for me not to get one.

[lizlarsen]

It looks nice! Very few mixers are going to be more than 2 channels, I think -- but you can always get a larger video switcher with A/B bus outputs to put in front of it as a channel selector. That's how a lot of the units with multiple inputs tend to work, anyway.

I don't use mixers much though, so maybe someone with some experience with this model will know more.

[daverj]

Most of the WJ-MX series have two TBC inputs that accept any decent video, and then one or two additional camera inputs that require genlocked cameras.

Most other brands in that same price range are also 2 TBC input mixers. If you go for the older ones (1980s) in that price range you get lots of inputs but none of them are TBCed, so everything you feed in must be synchronized or genlocked together first. (or you have to buy a bunch of TBCs)

[Arturo00]

my friend is selling this. Should I get it? Not sure how much he wants for it...

[daverj]

That should work well. Don't pay a lot for it. They're available used in the $150-$250 range (or more depending on who's selling it)

Check prices of the completed auctions on ebay. There's probably been a few recently. (never go by the current ebay auction prices, because somebody might list something at a high price but nobody buys it)

[hiawog]

switched on in austin sells these cool modded atari video controllers. i played with one in the store for a while; they're buckets of fun.

[barto]

if you are thinking about an older mixer like that, see if you can find an mx30. there are 2 inputs but you can use the "ext camera in" as another video source or you can use that to genlock the mixer to the LZX. plus it has luma key instead of just the DSK that the mx12 has. i found an mx20 for cheap at a used electronics place but i decided to get rid of it. it seemed to be more fussy then the mx30. aaaand i think you can only apply the effects to only the A bus on the mx20, where you can apply effects to both busses on the mx30 or you could always get the mx50 which is a beast

[johnnywoods]

You really can't go wrong with the Edirol V4, although it is quite pricey compared to these other models (750-850 used). However, you get 4 inputs, very useful effects, super lightweight design, incredible build quality and reliability. They are pretty much the de facto standard for any type of VJ application. I've had mine for almost ten years now, traveled with it all over the world, and never had a single glitch or issue.

[Arturo00]

Daaaaamn that looks neat. But if I'm gonna be spending that sort of money I'd be better off getting something with more features.

if you are thinking about an older mixer like that, see if you can find an mx30. there are 2 inputs but you can use the "ext camera in" as another video source or you can use that to genlock the mixer to the LZX. plus it has luma key instead of just the DSK that the mx12 has. i found an mx20 for cheap at a used electronics place but i decided to get rid of it. it seemed to be more fussy then the mx30. aaaand i think you can only apply the effects to only the A bus on the mx20, where you can apply effects to both busses on the mx30 or you could always get the mx50 which is a beast

I looked into the MX30, but it's a tad out of my price range. I think for now I'll stick with the MX12 and upgrade to a V4 once I've gotten my feet wet. Thanks for all the info though!

You really can't go wrong with the Edirol V4, although it is quite pricey compared to these other models (750-850 used). However, you get 4 inputs, very useful effects, super lightweight design, incredible build quality and reliability. They are pretty much the de facto standard for any type of VJ application. I've had mine for almost ten years now, traveled with it all over the world, and never had a single glitch or issue.

Thanks Johnnywoods. BTW, I've seen some of the work you've done for Neon Indian and Twin Shadow. They're only two of my FAVOURITE bands...and I watched a little interview you did on the LZX system where they referred to your work on the Twin Shadow video. Real good stuff.

If you happen to see either of them in the near future, could you do me a favour and mouth the words "Elephant Shoe" to them. That's not overly creepy, is it?

You too Lars. Great work on Mind, Drips!

[lizlarsen]

I designed and implemented the mods on those Atari Video Musics! They are definitely cool and fun, but yes, by all means go for the modular system if you can. You'll find it deeper and more satisfying in the long run.

All the Neon Indian kids are very close friends of mine, we all emerged from the same music scene here in Denton, Texas in the mid 00's. I think Johnny is at Coachella about to project for them live as we speak!

[nickciontea]

I have a wjmx12 that I got for a small donation to my old high school.. way to big and bulky to gig with.. I've used it only twice in larger gigs..

But at home its a wonderful way to quickly switch/mix between my Ipad/stock footage and live camera.

looking to get a v4 asap

[Arturo00]

I have a wjmx12 that I got for a small donation to my old high school.. way to big and bulky to gig with.. I've used it only twice in larger gigs..

I'm a drummer so big and bulky has never really been an issue for me. It does look rather large though. Is there anything else in that price range with similar functionality? Who else makes video mixers aside from Panasonic and Edirol?

[daverj]

The Videonics MX-1 is a bit more limited, but small and in that price range. It's a 2 TBC mixer with up to 4 inputs. Their MX-Pro is usually a lot higher, but occasionally you find one cheap. It's got a few more features.

[Arturo00]

The Videonics MX-1 is a bit more limited, but small and in that price range. It's a 2 TBC mixer with up to 4 inputs. Their MX-Pro is usually a lot higher, but occasionally you find one cheap. It's got a few more features.

Thanks Dave. I'll keep an eye open for that one too.

...on another note.

I've been rethinking what I want my rig to accomplish and I'm starting to lean more and more to towards mixing and generating swirls and shapes either by themselves, or blended with other video footage. That said, I'm thinking a few VWGs would probably be a good addition. Any suggestions on a system that could incorporate that, but still stay within the $2K limit.

This was the original system that was suggested by Lars:

Color Video Encoder
Video Sync Generator
Triple Video Multimode Filter
Video Blending Matrix
Voltage Bridge
Sandin IP Function Generator

And this as mentioned as well:

If you want more traditional keying and colorizer options, go with the Fader/Key Generator instead of the filter.

I looked Keying up and found this:

key Luminance key. Picture combining effect where the dark parts of one video source are replaced with video from another camera's picture.

I mean, that sounds pretty darn cool if you ask me and would be awesome to have the ability to do. I like the filter, but I'm starting to lean more towards the Fader/Key Generator.

I just want to nail this down before I make my big order...

[giorgio]

i dig the mx-10 and modded it as documented around the web for external keying of the 2 sources. sima sfx-m is also pretty good for cheap.