brains + PP does the job of a160 + 161? / RCD vs. a160

Cwejman, Doepfer, Erica, MakeNoise, Mutable instruments, TipTop Audio, Analogue Solutions, and much more! The world’s most popular format.
Be sure to look into MANUFACTURER SUB-FORA as well..
Post Reply
User avatar
M78
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: California

brains + PP does the job of a160 + 161? / RCD vs. a160

Post by M78 »

still on my journey creating my insane-eurorack-techno-box...and now I would like to create some cool patterns! :party:

I'm a bit confused with this and was wondering that if the brains was a binary stepper that stepped thru the PP, wouldn't the PP be the equivalent of what the a161 would do? ...tho I'm not sure how to get 'subdivisions' or divide the clock like the a160 module...

I was orignally going to get a RCD but it seems that the RCD is 'chaotic' in nature and does not really do the job of a clock divider like like a traditional clock divder such as the a160. If I'm wrong, :help:
User avatar
jenamu6
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2264
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:25 pm
Location: Rotterdam

Post by jenamu6 »

You are wrong.

The RCD can be a traditional clock divider......but you can also rotate the divisions.

Brains+PP does not equal a clock divider.(well....a very crude one)
User avatar
Soy Sos
Dub Surgeon
Posts: 4823
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:38 am
Location: Pittsburgh, PA USA

Post by Soy Sos »

The RDC will do basic divisions/counting without "rotating" also.
Simply don't use CV in the rotate input or attenuate and sneak it in there
for a little variation. Un-rotated you get divide by 2,3,4,5,6,7+8. The 160 will give you the big divisions, 2,4,8,16,32+64. There are getting to be a lot more ways to creatively divide clocks. The uStep can sort of be a divider (step counter?) and the Timetable does nice (2,4,8,+16) and nasty (^,@,**+gfch) at the same time. There are some others I'm missing plus a bunch of hacks.
User avatar
MrBiggs
I see dead people
Posts: 3069
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:16 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Post by MrBiggs »

A160 = clock divider
RCD = clock divider and wacky rotating chaos maker
Brains+PP = none of the above, except the wacky part

The A161 is not part of the clock dividing. It's just steps through the /1 part of the A160, which allows different things to happen on each step. It's really closer to a switch like the A151. The A161 doesn't have voltages attached to it like the PP, and the Brains doesn't divide like the A160. So really, two (or four) different things.

I have RCD, Brains, PP and I love love. You should look at the µStep too for patterns. RCD --> µStep --> Brains is great. Tossing in some logic modules like Spock between all that is another joy.
Last edited by MrBiggs on Fri May 27, 2011 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
•Music and stuff: BrianBiggs dot com.
•Current contents:Modulargrid
User avatar
M78
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: California

Post by M78 »

jenamu6 wrote: Brains+PP does not equal a clock divider.(well....a very crude one)
that's what I was trying to get at...a super-crude way of clock dividing if I had say 3 brains to do clock divisions under a large number of PP outputs :despair:

jenamu6 wrote: The RCD can be a traditional clock divider......but you can also rotate the divisions.
Does the RCD produce gates or triggers? And what does 'rotating' actually mean? I know this has been gone thru before but I haven't been able to find the thread that explains it..and it seems that because the RCD can rotate, be chaotic because of that, and only divide by the smaller divisions of 2,3,4,5,6,7+8 and it's that much more expensive (almost :75: more than the a160) It seems that the a160 is more for useful for some traditional note placements like quarter, eighth, and 32nd notes and not some weird note division like the RCD.


....also a bit offtopic, but I was cruising on youtube a bit and saw this:
[video][/video]

Would love to get this patch and use this hack thru my ES-3 instead of getting an actualy RCD! :love:
Last edited by M78 on Fri May 27, 2011 8:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jenamu6
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2264
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:25 pm
Location: Rotterdam

Post by jenamu6 »

You would need a whole lot of PP modules to get to the higher divisions :yay:
Because basically any sequencer with trigger outs can be used as a clock divider.

Rotating means you are able to switch between the division outputs.


I bought the RCD diy kit with expander, that was quite cheap........and I love it to pieces
User avatar
M78
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: California

Post by M78 »

MrBiggs wrote:You should look at the µStep too for patterns. RCD --> µStep --> Brains is great. Tossing in some logic modules like Spock between all that is another joy.
I just got the Spock and ustep modules actually, trying to figure them out but figuring having a RCD would still be awesome for the random percussive element here and there in a techno track

jenamu6 wrote:You would need a whole lot of PP modules to get to the higher divisions :yay:
think of all the fun it would be to fill up a 168 hp happy ending kit with 8PP, a brains, and a RCD+Breakout!!! :party:



/edit fuckit, that's my next project. :bananaguitar:
Last edited by M78 on Fri May 27, 2011 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
MrBiggs
I see dead people
Posts: 3069
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:16 pm
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Post by MrBiggs »

The RCD produced gates OR triggers depending on a jumper on the PCB. If you get a RCD you should get or build the breakout that allows you to choose gates or triggers on the fly, as well as some other options that add pattern-happy.

In addition to the rotating (see below) the RCD has odd divisions, which the A160 does not. /3 is my favorite, and why I decided to pay the extra for the RCD. I like triplets where /3 is my master and /1 creates triplets of that master.

The rotating is simpler than it sounds. You have /1 /2 /3 /4 /5 /6 /7 /8, right? If you send a voltage to the rotate input, the divisions switch places. So the first rotation creates something like /8 /1 /2 /3 /4 /5 /6 /7. Where the first output that was on the beat, is now outputting every 8th beat.

So say you're playing a snare sound with /2 and a kick with /4. When you rotate these, the snare might now be /1 and the kick /3, which changes your rhythm. The manual has specific voltages listed for whatever amount of rotation you want, so you could use MIDI-to-CV and use a keyboard or a sequencer to get the exact rhythms you desire.

Short answer: It's worth :75:
Last edited by MrBiggs on Fri May 27, 2011 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
•Music and stuff: BrianBiggs dot com.
•Current contents:Modulargrid
User avatar
jenamu6
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2264
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:25 pm
Location: Rotterdam

Post by jenamu6 »

You can only connect 2 PP to 1 brains......so if you want clockdivider......get a clock divider.

RCD is great.....if can solder, go for it. the DIY set is very good, versatile and cheap.
User avatar
M78
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: California

Post by M78 »

MrBiggs wrote: Short answer: It's worth :75:
you've sold me :tu: ...now about its depth :bang:

thanks everyone for the quick help!
User avatar
Carci
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 608
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 7:55 am
Location: Paris - France

Post by Carci »

nonbot wrote:
MrBiggs wrote: Short answer: It's worth :75:
you've sold me :tu: ...now about its depth :bang:

thanks everyone for the quick help!
Maybe get the DIY kit and find a way to place the PCB in a way that it will fit the 252 case.
FS : Doepfer MCV24 - Eowave Ringobug
User avatar
qu.one
hypnotic and sanctified
Posts: 4437
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:52 pm
Location: Pelham, NY

Post by qu.one »

The key thing about the RCD, and SCM for that matter) are the odd timings.

and that Reaktor patch was made by someone here — the user slips my mind though.
--------------------------------------------
Qu.One Instagram
Qu.One Bandcamp
Qu.One on YouTube Music
User avatar
Oldstench
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2481
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:26 am
Location: 5th, no, 6th circle of Hell

Post by Oldstench »

jenamu6 wrote: ....also a bit offtopic, but I was cruising on youtube a bit and saw this:
[video][/video]

Would love to get this patch and use this hack thru my ES-3 instead of getting an actualy RCD! :love:
That's my video! Here's the patch:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3061019/RCD_w_Reset.zip

You should still get an RCD - support module makers who make awesome modules. If no one bought an RCD, there'd likely be no Pingable Envelope Generator.
Humanity has doomed itself.
User avatar
Rigo
Chief Spam Killer
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:48 am
Location: Belgium

Post by Rigo »

jenamu6 wrote:I bought the RCD diy kit with expander, that was quite cheap........and I love it to pieces
Where did you buy it ? Looks an interesting option indeed ...
User avatar
Oldstench
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2481
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2010 9:26 am
Location: 5th, no, 6th circle of Hell

Post by Oldstench »

Rigo wrote:
jenamu6 wrote:I bought the RCD diy kit with expander, that was quite cheap........and I love it to pieces
Where did you buy it ? Looks an interesting option indeed ...
http://www.4mspedals.com/kits.php#clocker
Humanity has doomed itself.
User avatar
Rigo
Chief Spam Killer
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:48 am
Location: Belgium

Post by Rigo »

Looked there already, but I was asking from a European point of view; if I would have to order in States it might be much easier (and maybe even cheaper ?) to just buy the module here at Schneidersladen ... they do list the modules but not the kits :sadbanana:
User avatar
jenamu6
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2264
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:25 pm
Location: Rotterdam

Post by jenamu6 »

Just order from 4ms.......it's fast, good and cheap.
User avatar
Navs
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 4642
Joined: Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:49 am
Location: Berlin, Germany

Post by Navs »

Brains + 2PP will can cover the A-161's function and, with some creative reset patching, you can achieve clock division. The simplest example is just to tap one PP gate for a /8.

That said, get an RCD (+breakout!) It's a marriage made in heaven: you can use the RCD to reset or change Brains' direction and, to get more complex patterns, use one row of PP to rotate the RCD. Factor in manual reset-point setting on PP (i.e. Brains resets to the last touched column) and you've got a very flexible sequencer.
User avatar
READYdot
controlled by voltage!
Posts: 1154
Joined: Sat Jan 09, 2010 5:01 pm
Location: Luxembourg, EUROPE

Post by READYdot »

Rigo wrote:
Looked there already, but I was asking from a European point of view; if I would have to order in States it might be much easier (and maybe even cheaper ?) to just buy the module here at Schneidersladen ... they do list the modules but not the kits :sadbanana:
Just buy it from them. I've got the whole bunch DIYed RCD + breakout, SCM + breakout. Pretty easy to build, excellent support and VERY cheap! Just BUY IT! You know you need and want it. Don't fight the lust.... :party:
User avatar
jbartee
special stage
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:31 pm

Post by jbartee »

Soy Sos wrote:The 160 will give you the big divisions, 2,4,8,16,32+64.
RCD can do these divisions too using the "max divide-by amount" jumpers. It can be a little fiddly because you have to use the rotation to hit all the divisions, and without using another module like a sequencer it's impossible to get divide by 2 and divide by 64 (for instance) at the same time. Still offers a lot of flexibility to get very specific long divisions.

Image
User avatar
jbartee
special stage
Posts: 1118
Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:31 pm

Post by jbartee »

Also regarding the "chaos" of the module, rotation can be used super musically if you're somewhat specific about how you're altering the divisions and don't rotate too rapidly. The drums in this old video of mine are entirely driven by the RCD (no sequencing, the B+PP is doing the melody), with rotation occasionally applied to change the rhythm.
[video][/video]
User avatar
jenamu6
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 2264
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 3:25 pm
Location: Rotterdam

Post by jenamu6 »

:sb: :sb: :sb: Hell Yeah! Great patch, love the variation.
User avatar
Rigo
Chief Spam Killer
Posts: 3090
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:48 am
Location: Belgium

Post by Rigo »

READYdot wrote:Just buy it from them. I've got the whole bunch DIYed RCD + breakout, SCM + breakout. Pretty easy to build, excellent support and VERY cheap! Just BUY IT! You know you need and want it. Don't fight the lust.... :party:
Yeah ... but then I should probably also look for some better soldering tools. And I need a new case as well ... next week I will have 4HP too much for my current 9U.
User avatar
M78
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 449
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:11 pm
Location: California

Post by M78 »

Oldstench wrote: That's my video! Here's the patch:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3061019/RCD_w_Reset.zip

:hail:

with the doepfer clock divider, can't you get up to /128 and even /256 whereas with the RCD it's not possible? The a160+161 combo vs the RCD + breakout both just seem like two different beasts that are capable of different things albeit the RCD is more chaotic than the doepfer, and it seems that the doepfer one could be useful for some good riff phrasings over longer periods of time.
User avatar
mhtones
Dreams in CV
Posts: 2217
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: SF Bay Area

Post by mhtones »

jbartee wrote:Also regarding the "chaos" of the module, rotation can be used super musically if you're somewhat specific about how you're altering the divisions and don't rotate too rapidly. The drums in this old video of mine are entirely driven by the RCD (no sequencing, the B+PP is doing the melody), with rotation occasionally applied to change the rhythm.
[video][/video]
God Damn! You just sold me on the RCD. Fun Stuff. :tu:
Post Reply

Return to “1U & 3U Eurorack Modules”