M/S processing?

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BugBrand
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M/S processing?

Post by BugBrand »

I thought I'd ask as it has popped in to my mind a few times.

It seems like a powerful & interesting approach - the encoding & decoding circuitry is amazingly simple.
[sum & difference - same either from L/R or M/S]
I tried it out quickly on the Nord G2 demo software a couple of nights ago & enjoyed it!

So, other than being able to vary the level of the side input - for a width control - there seems to be less need for a control of the mid input, though could be interesting/useful.
The idea of separately processing the mid & side separately is very appealing! When the MonoComp comes out, then paired with PEQ - a pair on mid & a pair on side. If I can fit the encode/decode onto a single 1FW panel.. that would make a filled out frame setup ;)

Has anyone been using M/S?
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northerntao
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Re: M/S processing?

Post by northerntao »

I have a Worng LRMSMSLR in my Euro case. Its fun to apply time delay effects to percussive elements on the side while leaving the muddier stuff in the middle alone. I’d be down for a Buggy take. My two phasers would be a prime source of new experimentation.

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chrisdermo
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Re: M/S processing?

Post by chrisdermo »

Mid/side processing on a mix buss / mastering situation tends to be something that gets taken way too far when people first get the capability and it eventually becomes something that is rarely used at all. It gives that immediate 'wow' effect that gets people reaching to turn up more and more width but it's generally at the expense of punch and depth unless done in very minute amounts - my mastering console has 0.5dB steps and when I do use it I've never gone over 1dB, same goes for EQing the mid or the side - a tiny bit can sometimes add a bit of pizazz but often creates issues elsewhere.

However! Using mid / side for creative endeavours can be really fun especially with modulated eq/phaser/filtering/delay etc on some elements in the mix rather than across the entire thing. I'd love to see a bug 1fw encoder/decoder as part of the red and blue ecosystem - are you thinking of 4 trs jacks for left & right I/O with a bipolar gain knob for the side?
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BugBrand
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Re: M/S processing?

Post by BugBrand »

That's interesting & understandable, the risk of over-use for sure!
Yeah, lots to explore.
I think more on a Red version because there's little stereo in the blue but it'd be very interesting patching the signals in for blue processing..
Unsure yet whether just to go with 8 x TRS (encode & decode in one 1FW module) or cram in attenuators for the decode paths (hadn't considered bipolar attenuator / invert...)
There's also a need for 6db attenuation at some point in the chain but that should be easily set up.
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dogoftears
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Re: M/S processing?

Post by dogoftears »

another cool thing with M/S is that it defeats the potential for L/R imbalances when you are using two mono devices (like the PEQs).

i prefer it for EQ but not comp... destroys the image too much.
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Stab Frenzy
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Re: M/S processing?

Post by Stab Frenzy »

BugBrand wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:29 pm There's also a need for 6db attenuation at some point in the chain but that should be easily set up.
It’s generally best to put the -6dB on the encode side, that means you’re not eating up headroom right at the start.

Re overuse, in a modular system there’s a lot more scope for using MS in a creative way than in a clinical way. Using it on one voice in a mix is very different than using it over the whole master bus.
dogoftears wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 12:39 pm another cool thing with M/S is that it defeats the potential for L/R imbalances when you are using two mono devices (like the PEQs).

i prefer it for EQ but not comp... destroys the image too much.
Using EQ in MS can have unexpected results in the analogue domain, as EQ is a process that uses phase shifts to change the signal, and MS relies on phase differences to do what it does. Linear phase EQs tend to work as expected, others can give you unplanned results. As always it’s best to try it and listen to the results.
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Re: M/S processing?

Post by pugix »

Funny, but I just got the idea to play around with Mid-Side. I have a Shakmat Modular SumDif, which has two sum and difference sections. The top section has an optional divide by 2 (-6db) jumper, so that it can be used as a mid-side encoder. Then the other section can put it back together. I've just started playing around with it. So far I've only tried tilt eq (River Marble module). I want to try short delays, compression, peaky filter, etc.. The main question I've run into is what sort of stereo mix to start out with.
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