Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

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DickMarker
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Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by DickMarker »

Just saw the Bugbrand email. Exciting new 5FW design?
Spill the beans Tom!
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design?

Post by BugBrand »

Yeah, best not to tease - though I always worry I'll jinx things by early revealing & then somehow a spanner appears to clog things up...

Been working on this on & off a while - 5FW Sequence.
Relatively simple insides which no doubt influence the perhaps slightly strange options! When otoskope got to try one, there were several things which appeared unintuitive or confusing (eg - initial First/Last wording on the rotaries has been changed) - but equally I'm always trying to get building blocks which offer some surprises rather than sticking to the usual 8-step-loops.
I'm sure there'll be some questions and also some wonderings why such-&-such isn't included..

Noting that there are a few headers on the rear - I've had proto hooked up to a DDiv & DDSR (one side stepped from clock, other from Gate A) via the Bus lines (though unfortunately DDivs require a minor mod adding a tie-down resistor to the reset line)

Anyway - here's the final proto & the updated panel design with changes:
IMG_20211126_141058.jpg
Seq_panel_nov21.jpg
Couple of notes:
Otoskope suggested I add the Int/Main switch to the clock out - so you can output the internal (simple) clock, divide it and then get it to clock the sequencer itself (Clock switch set to Ext)
Q0-2 - these are binary outputs representing the current stage
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DickMarker
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by DickMarker »

Looking very nice, like the reset and glide features.
Sorry to tease it out of you.
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chrisdermo
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by chrisdermo »

2 gate busses ftw!!
Can't wait to get busy with those reset rotary switches 😊
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by phisynth »

Dope ! Binary counter is an interesting idea ! (but you'll have to design 3-inputs logic modules now :lol:) Would there be a possibility for these to act as inputs to select stages and add programmer functionality ?
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by soup »

Looks great!
phisynth wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:38 am Binary counter is an interesting idea ! (but you'll have to design 3-inputs logic modules now :lol:)
BBV!
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by a100user »

Interesting Tom, hopefully you’ll get some time to show it in action?
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by BananaPlug »

I like that it brings so many "gatey" possibilities for controlling things. Makes me wish for D-type Flip-Flops.
'Such-&-such' should definitely be included? :hihi:
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by northerntao »

I saw this on Otoskope’s Instagram feed (a prototype), and Tom posted this video a few months ago. I have 5FW free in my rack waiting for it.

UPDATE - oh, this looks like a counter - nice companion to a BBV! Ohh, looks like its got a built in mini BBV - does the glide affect those values? One cool thing about the 2-bit Mux is that it has a glide function, unlike the BBV.

I didn’t know the DDiv had a clocking header - I’ll have to look at the back of mine. Does it need to be soldered on? I got mine from you (Tom) in summer(ish) 2020.

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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by BugBrand »

phisynth wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 11:38 amWould there be a possibility for these to act as inputs to select stages and add programmer functionality ?
Afraid not - as someone noted, the BBV can act as an external extra row.
a100user wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:41 pm Interesting Tom, hopefully you’ll get some time to show it in action?
Sometime, I'm sure ;)
northerntao wrote: Fri Nov 26, 2021 5:42 pm UPDATE - oh, this looks like a counter - nice companion to a BBV! Ohh, looks like its got a built in mini BBV - does the glide affect those values? One cool thing about the 2-bit Mux is that it has a glide function, unlike the BBV.

I didn’t know the DDiv had a clocking header - I’ll have to look at the back of mine. Does it need to be soldered on? I got mine from you (Tom) in summer(ish) 2020.
Well it is based on a counter, but we step through the counter, whereas the BBV is binary stage selection (ie. this has binary Output from Q0-2, while BBV has binary inputs)

DDiv - yes, it has two 2pin headers for Clk/Rst (2nd one is as a 'through' to chain to other modules) - unfortunately it turns out that the Rst line needs a tie-down resistor - simple to add - and I only noticed this a few months ago when testing with this Sequence prototype.
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by Karl_Joseph »

My DRM2 seems to respond to falling edge of a trigger, so when I send it a gate from a keyboard, it doesn’t trigger until I release the note. Will this be able to produce short triggers to keep it tight?
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by BugBrand »

Karl_Joseph wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:58 pm My DRM2 seems to respond to falling edge of a trigger, so when I send it a gate from a keyboard, it doesn’t trigger until I release the note. Will this be able to produce short triggers to keep it tight?
Really? What's the keyboard? Something amiss - definitely should trigger off the rising edge..
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by Karl_Joseph »

It’s a bass station 2 going through XOR NerdSEQ for translation to CV.

I should also add im also using the 1/4” input for the trigger and not the banana jack
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by BugBrand »

Karl_Joseph wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:06 pm It’s a bass station 2 going through XOR NerdSEQ for translation to CV.

I should also add im also using the 1/4” input for the trigger and not the banana jack
It's been ages since I used the audio-in for triggering, so can't offhand remember what happens with a gate in - but I'd suggest you'd be better simply interfacing to the main trig input.

But, yes, the Sequence Gate rows can either be full step or with step length controlled by the Gate Length dial (goes down to around 1mS or so)
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by Karl_Joseph »

Nice!

If I use the banana trigger in, my gates/triggers don’t trigger fully so the bend range is limited and I can’t have that - I need maximum zap! Maybe my DRM is messed up? Works fun using the 1/4” in with the trigger level all the way up for maximum zaps!
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by batchas »

Karl_Joseph wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:41 pm If I use the banana trigger in, my gates/triggers don’t trigger fully so the bend range is limited and I can’t have that - I need maximum zap!
Maybe the signals from the Eurorack are not hot enough? You could try mixing the same voltage in a cv mixer (your trig signal going to 2 inputs of your mixer, the output going to the DRM2 trig in) if you have one to see if it's better. I guess a ring modulator could do the job too, worth trying IMHO.

EDIT:
It's not maybe the signals from the Eurorack are not hot enough for the trig input, it's certainly they are not hot enough, more likely +5V than the expected +10V at the DRM trig in. So if you have a DC mixer or a ring modulator in your setup, you can do what I previously described, to go directly with the sum of your signal coming from Eurroack to the trig input of your DRM2.
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by castano »

This is exciting! Hope they are available soon :)
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by dogoftears »

the binary outs are interesting, but i would prefer CV inputs for stage address and/or those glide amounts, or maybe gate length. i love the "range" CV in on seq-1 but that is easy enough to replicate with a VCA.
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by chrisdermo »

So eager to work with those first/last step knobs.... Keep thinking about it. I used to use my Meng Qi Voltage Memory's ability to set first and last steps on the 12 step sequencer as well as direction and it was so good for building an entire track performance out of a new steps. Add in resets and the two gate busses...... I'm drooling.
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by Voltage_Controller »

this will fit nicely in a frame with a DRM2. :)
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by /\/\/\/ »

I like the spaciousness. While I do love the Le Seq modules in 1FW, this looks much more “hands on” so to speak.

Agree with above, jamming on this + DRM2 will be fun!
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by northerntao »

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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by BugBrand »

Yep, these are the first two from the production run that I'm (finally! had them for some weeks now) building up to check over.
I'd hoped we'd get on to making some this week but Jas got Covid again unfortunately for her.

Also had great tribulations with getting panels - an ongoing frustration. I was trying somewhere new that in theory offered 'Superb Quality' but really has been very poor - also I've been trialling a new approach using two 1.6mm panels rather than a single 3.2mm one - the thinking being that by using twice as many, if there are any scratches on a few panels, they can be used as 'back panels' while the good ones go in front. Unfortunately the productions I've got so far have had waaaaay to many bad ones, so I'll have to go back to the old PCB house and get some more... The ones I have at the moment are not exactly bad, but they almost always have some minor surface imperfections.
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by lud »

That design looks so clean and tight, really inviting. How infuriating about the panels though, sounds like a constant battle these days.
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Re: Exciting New 5FW design? [Sequence]

Post by batchas »

BugBrand wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:24 am Also had great tribulations with getting panels - an ongoing frustration.
Such a shame.

What I found the most frustrating was when after getting some bad batches of panels I offered the manufacturer to pay more, even double once (!), and the company assured me they would take special care. When I received the batch of Orgone panels it was the worse I ever got.
I gave up at some point as we know cause ordering 80 panels for a run of 20 modules was insane. I felt very bad too about the waste.

Frustrating is when you get from manufacturer A a perfect batch, just perfect, and the next batch is rubbish, just rubbish. So you know they could do it perfect but they don't.

At the very beginning of my journey with modules making I was convinced that they just didn't care and were taking me for fool with their answers.
The all thing was difficult because it takes time to get a new batch.
Then paradoxically, as the frustration was getting higher and higher during the journey, I did step back more and more and took it less and less personal. Of course what helped was to know, after talking to you Tom, that you also didn't get always good batches, or at least, needed to order bigger quantities to sort the good panels. I didn't felt alone!
I mean when you get a module it looks good. So you don't know the all story behind a panel. Or even the all module actually. It's way more then we can imagine. One reason more why I admire so much Tom's work.

So stepping back more and more (and TBH meditating more regularly now that I live surounded by nature) I looked at it differently.
I have a person to talk to, who speaks english and got an extra name to communicate with you ("Yolanda", "Teresa"), nice, polite and always acquiescing with my demands and, at the other end of the chain, I have a worker who maybe never gets the information about front-panels instead of circuit PCBs, or who have anyway to be productive and "can't" make any difference between a run of PCBs for front-panels and a run of PCBs for circuits (what his job primarily is actually, circuit PCBs, not panels). Maybe it would take too much time for the worker to make them clean. Maybe he can't even imagine why it would need to be handled differently than a simple circuit board. I don't know...
Maybe himself is frustrated by his job, hours, pay, family problems, who knows.
Then the panels got packed and sent away. The nice person who I talked to, responsable for customer relations, never saw the result anyway. Not like in a small company where people would talk together and give a special care.
If the manufacture was nearby I'd go to show a module to the workers. So they could see that they count and that they are an important part in the process of making people happy :tu:

Okay. There might be also another reason for getting sometimes nice panels and sometimes bad panels.
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