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Ruiner
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All Things Sequencers

Post by Ruiner »

ust some random thoughts on sequencers I have while deciding what to keep and what to get rid of as well as what others to try:

FLXS1: This is the sequencer I've had the longest. I like the layout and it's pretty intuitive to use. I love that I can pick a key for a channel and only the notes in that key will be available so I can easily create melodies quickly. It has the best arp section of any sequencer I've tried. Easy to link patterns and create full songs. Modulation per note is great. I do wish he was more active in creating firmware updates and posting tutorials and examples and such.

POLYEND SEQ: Second longest sequencer I've owned and it's my go to. As I've been searching for other sequencers I just started going back to this and watching tutorials over again and other people's uses and realized just how powerful yet simple it is especially after the last few firmware updates. I get caught in my ways and realized I wasn't using it to it's full capabilities. For drums it's perfect for my needs. While I prefer the FLXS1 for complex melody, the SEQ is insanely good for quick creativity with the random mode. The random mode can pick a key and fill in 16 bars and you can keep clicking it till you hear a melody you like, fix a few steps that are off and you have a part of your song to start with. Velocity, modulation, rolls, clock mult/div per track, changing lengths of each channel (great for poly rhythms!), ability to control my midi synths at the same time as eurorack.... and much more.

NERDSEQ: I've only had this for a short time and haven't used it much but have watched over 3 hours in videos (and that's only scratching the surface on the basics!). I think the functionality may be one of the most comprehensive of any eurorack module out there and very well may be one of the best eurorack sequencers on the market..... but I just don't know if I want my workflow to be spent in various screens doing meticulous work to create the sequences. Seems pretty time consuming and I feel like if I'm going to do all that I might as well create MIDI sequences in my DAW with a better workflow and more options and bring it to my eurorack. There's some great things about it especially for performing live after you've created sequences but I have a feeling it just isn't for me. Still spending some more time with it though before deciding.

RENE mk2: I had the mk1 and never used it. I got the two and I haven't spent the time to learn it. That said the times I have used it, it's a lot of fun but for the stuff I make I think I need more intention then it immediately offers. I can see why people love it but not sure it's for me. To be fair, I certainly have not gone deep enough into learning it to make an educated decision but the fact I'm not using it tells me it's not the workflow for me.

METRON: Just got this and haven't had a chance to really use it. From watching videos I think it's probably one of the best trigger sequencers out there but I already have the SEQ and love that as well as already know how to use it effectively. While I'm sure there are differences and possibly areas where Metron excels at in comparison, I already know the SEQ well and love it so not sure I'm going to spend the time to learn a sequencer that has that many similarities for my uses. If I didn't have the SEQ and already familiar with it, then I very well may have chosen the Metron. I also very well may not know what additional capabilities the Metron can provide over the SEQ. That said, if you're looking for a trigger specific module, I highly suggest checking this one out.

TORAIZ SQUID: Got this incoming and should be here in the next week. It's desktop but from the videos I've seen may very well be something that works well for my needs and workflow.

CURRENT SEQUENCERS I'M MOST INTERESTED IN TRYING OUT: FIVE12 Vector and Performer.... Pyramid (not Hermod) has always been of interest as well. Interested to see what the new Endorphin.es melodic sequencer they are teasing is about too.

While trying out gear is half the fun for me, I'm realizing between the FLXS1 and SEQ that I have a pretty solid sequencing setup and mainly the fact that I already know them and can create rather than spending too much time learning new gear that I may or may not end up keeping.

Just some thoughts I thought I'd share! Would love to hear your thoughts as well both on what you use, why you love / hate it and what you're looking forward to!
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Post by mgallagher641 »

Wow, thanks that is super informative.

I've not used any of these yet. Polyend sounds awesome.

My current go-to for sequencing is the Digitakt. Having samples plus 8 MIDI tracks I find works great for my setup. The workflow is fast too, seems a lot better in this regard than other Elektron gear. Obviously you need MIDI to CV, but one handy thing about Digitakt is that it can output DIN Sync on either the MIDI out and/or the THRU. With a simple adapter cable you can get clock and run signals from that, and patch these into the modular wherever you need them. So you can run MIDI out of the MIDI out, and DIN sync out of the MIDI thru. Really cool.

A lot of people seem to be using Arturia Beatstep Pro with modular. Be interested to hear opinions on that.

I have an Arturia Keystep which has a sequencer in it and will output CV and gate. IMO that sequencer is complete crap. No visual feedback, not easy to use. I tried a few times and gave up.

I'm not sure if it counts as a proper sequencer, but I've been getting a lot of mileage out of Turing Machine set to loop + Pulses expander + Disting quantizer. The only annoyance is that TM doesn't have a run/reset to step one input, so it takes a lot of faff to get repeatable results.
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Post by BLogic12 »

one think that might help you with the NERDSEQ:

there is soon going to be an update/expander that will let you connect a novation lauchpad to the nerdseq and enter sequences and launch sequences, making less menu diving, more hands on.
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Post by StateAzure »

Your thoughts on the Seq (+Poly) and NerdSeq pretty much echo my own feelings. I've owned both for quite a while now and done a LOT of patches using both, often using the NerdSeq for drums/samples and the Seq for pitch sequencing and sometimes extra percussion lines.

These have been my favourite sequencers so far, after also trying Eloquencer, Hermod, Rene mk2, and Digitakt via cv.ocd.

Some of my additional thoughts on those two..

NerdSeq: Definitely one of, if not THE most powerful and deep sequencers in eurorack. But also imo the most intimidating and difficult to learn. It's easy enough to get used to the basics and the tracker workflow/UI, but learning all the different commands for trigs, pitch, modulation, FX etc and deeper features requires a lot of time, and good luck remembering all these things if you don't use all those features regularly. I've had mine now for several months, and still feel I only understand 50% of the module. The pattern islands/Ableton-style clip launching which make it really fun for live performing.

Seq: So easy and fun to use, never intimidating at all as it's very easy to learn pretty much all its features in a relatively short time. |Pattern change triggers are awesome and make pattern chaining/song building painless. Different lengths and div/mult of each channel and the ease of changing it on the fly encourages experimentation for cool poly-rhythms/poly-meters. But it has downsides, like no probability, no random per note pitch etc, no CV clock input..overall just no way currently to evolve/randomise the sequences automatically, so I often end up with quite static (in terms of notes/trigs) sequences. It's also big (but looks sexy), and the Poly takes up a fair bit of hp itself.

I have the Five12 Vector on order and will be trying that soon, which for pitch sequencing might potentially replace my Seq. It's ability to evolve, generate, extensive probability features and sub-sequencers to add variation seem awesome. Can't wait to try it, though I can't imagine it'll be as fun to program as the Seq.
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Post by Ruiner »

brandonlogic wrote:one think that might help you with the NERDSEQ:

there is soon going to be an update/expander that will let you connect a novation lauchpad to the nerdseq and enter sequences and launch sequences, making less menu diving, more hands on.
Hmm, that's pretty interesting. They're really doing a lot with the expanders. It's amazing how many triggers you can have now with those expanders they just released too. I just don't know if it's going to be right for me despite being so powerful and encompassing almost any feature you could think of for the reasons StateAzure mentioned above.
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Post by richc90 »

I tried so many sequencers and never found what I was looking for.

Until I got an ER-101.
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Post by Ruiner »

StateAzure wrote:Your thoughts on the Seq (+Poly) and NerdSeq pretty much echo my own feelings. I've owned both for quite a while now and done a LOT of patches using both, often using the NerdSeq for drums/samples and the Seq for pitch sequencing and sometimes extra percussion lines.

These have been my favourite sequencers so far, after also trying Eloquencer, Hermod, Rene mk2, and Digitakt via cv.ocd.

Some of my additional thoughts on those two..

NerdSeq: Definitely one of, if not THE most powerful and deep sequencers in eurorack. But also imo the most intimidating and difficult to learn. It's easy enough to get used to the basics and the tracker workflow/UI, but learning all the different commands for trigs, pitch, modulation, FX etc and deeper features requires a lot of time, and good luck remembering all these things if you don't use all those features regularly. I've had mine now for several months, and still feel I only understand 50% of the module. The pattern islands/Ableton-style clip launching which make it really fun for live performing.

Seq: So easy and fun to use, never intimidating at all as it's very easy to learn pretty much all its features in a relatively short time. |Pattern change triggers are awesome and make pattern chaining/song building painless. Different lengths and div/mult of each channel and the ease of changing it on the fly encourages experimentation for cool poly-rhythms/poly-meters. But it has downsides, like no probability, no random per note pitch etc, no CV clock input..overall just no way currently to evolve/randomise the sequences automatically, so I often end up with quite static (in terms of notes/trigs) sequences. It's also big (but looks sexy), and the Poly takes up a fair bit of hp itself.

I have the Five12 Vector on order and will be trying that soon, which for pitch sequencing might potentially replace my Seq. It's ability to evolve, generate, extensive probability features and sub-sequencers to add variation seem awesome. Can't wait to try it, though I can't imagine it'll be as fun to program as the Seq.
Funny you should comment on here, I actually just found your YouTube page yesterday and was blown away by the music you're making! Great job and subscribed!

NERDSEQ: you hit the nail on the head for me... I have limited music time and when I do I have a lot of equipment I like to play with and I feel like the amount of time it will take to learn it will take away from making music more than most other modules or gear. Even when I do learn it I fear only becoming comfortable with the basic features and forgetting about what else I can do with it or how to do it.

SEQ: Agreed about probability. I'm assuming that wouldn't be too difficult to add and wonder if it's been brought up to them. I was a very early adopter and almost any feature I mentioned to them they either added it to a firmware or it was already in the works.

What do you mean about no random per note pitch? I know you can select a key, hit random and random notes will populate into the sequence within that key. Do you mean just selecting a single step and getting a random note? CV clock hasn't bothered me since I have the PAM expander but would save me HP if I didn't have to use it. I love the size and having it off my eurorack... so much more immediate and better feeling to use it that way than reaching into my rack around wires. The Poly is rather large.... I've considered swapping it out with a Mutant Brains but haven't done that yet.

FIVE12: I got the invoice for the Five12 but haven't hit the buy now button yet. I think that one may be the ticket for me but I really wanted to try out the Toraiz Squid to control everything in my studio including eurorack and really like some of the features I've seen so far so going to try that first and then order a Vector if that doesn't hit the mark for me.
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Post by StateAzure »

Ruiner wrote:
Funny you should comment on here, I actually just found your YouTube page yesterday and was blown away by the music you're making! Great job and subscribed!

NERDSEQ: you hit the nail on the head for me... I have limited music time and when I do I have a lot of equipment I like to play with and I feel like the amount of time it will take to learn it will take away from making music more than most other modules or gear. Even when I do learn it I fear only becoming comfortable with the basic features and forgetting about what else I can do with it or how to do it.

SEQ: Agreed about probability. I'm assuming that wouldn't be too difficult to add and wonder if it's been brought up to them. I was a very early adopter and almost any feature I mentioned to them they either added it to a firmware or it was already in the works.

What do you mean about no random per note pitch? I know you can select a key, hit random and random notes will populate into the sequence within that key. Do you mean just selecting a single step and getting a random note? CV clock hasn't bothered me since I have the PAM expander but would save me HP if I didn't have to use it. I love the size and having it off my eurorack... so much more immediate and better feeling to use it that way than reaching into my rack around wires. The Poly is rather large.... I've considered swapping it out with a Mutant Brains but haven't done that yet.

FIVE12: I got the invoice for the Five12 but haven't hit the buy now button yet. I think that one may be the ticket for me but I really wanted to try out the Toraiz Squid to control everything in my studio including eurorack and really like some of the features I've seen so far so going to try that first and then order a Vector if that doesn't hit the mark for me.
Hey thanks man, really appreciate it!

Yeah the NerdSeq is a tricky one. I can't imagine many people really use ALL of its features, but that's not really a negative against it. For the way I use it, it works really well, just that when I do finally decide to try one of its deeper features I always have to go to the manual..even for say trig proability, because I simply don't use it often and I forget how to use the commands. Whereas a sequencer like Eloquencer which also has a lot of probability functions requires no manual at all. But still, the pattern selection/chaining and island features are sooo good for my use, I can't see an alternative right now and it's definitely the highlight of the NerdSeq for me. Hell, I may even have to grab a Launchpad once it's supported (although islands/pattern selection is pretty easy anyway).

When I mentioned random per note pitch on the seq, I mean you can't have that evolve automatically based on (again) probability, which I really wish it had (another point for the Eloquencer). Something I believe the Vector can take care of. The CV Clock isn't a major thing for me, but it would be nice if sometimes I want to run a varying clock speed based on CV.

And since I mentioned the Eloquencer a few times, my thoughts on that sequencer..

Eloquencer: Man, sometimes I really miss this module. Visuals and UI make it almost as easy and fun to use/program as the Seq. Probability and randomisation options are awesome and very easy to use, WAY easier than the NerdSeq. and like the Seq I never found it intimidating to use, actually the opposite, it really invites playing and experimenting with the features. I barely ever touched the manual. But it has one big con for me personally, that is patterns, their selection, chaining and editing which all felt very clunky (not helped by sometimes unresponsive buttons), I wish they would improve this but even if they do I don't think they could compete with the NerdSeq way of doing it.

Also, Hermod..

Hermod: Way underrated and overlooked sequencer, which I also miss sometimes. It's like several modules in one and very decent MIDI to CV converter in a relatively small footprint. It's quirky and fiddly as hell trying to program sequences with that tiny screen, but makes up for it with MIDI recording of CV, and MIDI live looping. A good sequencer for keyboard players. Just this and a Arturia Keystep make for pretty a powerful combo. I hope they do continue to work on this, as I could be tempted to pick this up again in the future.
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Post by mosorensen »

I use a channel of Nerdseq to sequence Rene2, which I like to use for playing around with pitches. I trigger it from the Nerdseq, and this way it is easy to send rhythms into Rene.

I think of it as kind of a "complex sequencer" where one sequencer sequences another, analogously to a "complex oscillator" where one oscillator modulates another.
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Post by Ruiner »

Well it looks like I missed a FLXS1 update which has a couple of cool features but the additional features he mentioned that are in the works is really going to step up FLXS1 for me. I'm glad I hung on to it!

"Here are the improvements that have been made in Firmware 19a:
Saved pattern count increased to 128 (8 pages of save slots are now available through pg dn and pg up buttons
Added copy, paste and clear to the save page, so you can copy whole patterns directly in that page
Sysex import and export work in v19a. You can now back up your FLXS1 sequences to your computer!
Modulation Randomization has been added to the randomization shortcut
Other features that I am still working on for near future release:
Fix first step bug
per step delay setting (set by milliseconds)
MIDI input for writing sequences
probability setting per step"
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Post by chaosick »

Ruiner wrote:
StateAzure wrote:Your thoughts on the Seq (+Poly) and NerdSeq pretty much echo my own feelings. I've owned both for quite a while now and done a LOT of patches using both, often using the NerdSeq for drums/samples and the Seq for pitch sequencing and sometimes extra percussion lines.

These have been my favourite sequencers so far, after also trying Eloquencer, Hermod, Rene mk2, and Digitakt via cv.ocd.

Some of my additional thoughts on those two..

NerdSeq: Definitely one of, if not THE most powerful and deep sequencers in eurorack. But also imo the most intimidating and difficult to learn. It's easy enough to get used to the basics and the tracker workflow/UI, but learning all the different commands for trigs, pitch, modulation, FX etc and deeper features requires a lot of time, and good luck remembering all these things if you don't use all those features regularly. I've had mine now for several months, and still feel I only understand 50% of the module. The pattern islands/Ableton-style clip launching which make it really fun for live performing.

Seq: So easy and fun to use, never intimidating at all as it's very easy to learn pretty much all its features in a relatively short time. |Pattern change triggers are awesome and make pattern chaining/song building painless. Different lengths and div/mult of each channel and the ease of changing it on the fly encourages experimentation for cool poly-rhythms/poly-meters. But it has downsides, like no probability, no random per note pitch etc, no CV clock input..overall just no way currently to evolve/randomise the sequences automatically, so I often end up with quite static (in terms of notes/trigs) sequences. It's also big (but looks sexy), and the Poly takes up a fair bit of hp itself.

I have the Five12 Vector on order and will be trying that soon, which for pitch sequencing might potentially replace my Seq. It's ability to evolve, generate, extensive probability features and sub-sequencers to add variation seem awesome. Can't wait to try it, though I can't imagine it'll be as fun to program as the Seq.
Funny you should comment on here, I actually just found your YouTube page yesterday and was blown away by the music you're making! Great job and subscribed!

NERDSEQ: you hit the nail on the head for me... I have limited music time and when I do I have a lot of equipment I like to play with and I feel like the amount of time it will take to learn it will take away from making music more than most other modules or gear. Even when I do learn it I fear only becoming comfortable with the basic features and forgetting about what else I can do with it or how to do it.

SEQ: Agreed about probability. I'm assuming that wouldn't be too difficult to add and wonder if it's been brought up to them. I was a very early adopter and almost any feature I mentioned to them they either added it to a firmware or it was already in the works.

What do you mean about no random per note pitch? I know you can select a key, hit random and random notes will populate into the sequence within that key. Do you mean just selecting a single step and getting a random note? CV clock hasn't bothered me since I have the PAM expander but would save me HP if I didn't have to use it. I love the size and having it off my eurorack... so much more immediate and better feeling to use it that way than reaching into my rack around wires. The Poly is rather large.... I've considered swapping it out with a Mutant Brains but haven't done that yet.

FIVE12: I got the invoice for the Five12 but haven't hit the buy now button yet. I think that one may be the ticket for me but I really wanted to try out the Toraiz Squid to control everything in my studio including eurorack and really like some of the features I've seen so far so going to try that first and then order a Vector if that doesn't hit the mark for me.
The Five 12 Vector is the best and most powerful sequencer I've ever used. It lets you create real, complex, evolving MUSIC with it, quickly.
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Post by chaosick »

mosorensen wrote:I use a channel of Nerdseq to sequence Rene2, which I like to use for playing around with pitches. I trigger it from the Nerdseq, and this way it is easy to send rhythms into Rene.

I think of it as kind of a "complex sequencer" where one sequencer sequences another, analogously to a "complex oscillator" where one oscillator modulates another.
I know you're not alone in this, but have always wondered why people feel the need for this--if you do, it seems more like the sequencers you're using are deficient in a way. The analogy doesn't really hold up, because audio rate modulation (oscillator to another oscillator) produces results that are distinctly different from voltage, because you are quantitatively moving into a higher frequency. I gather that people use multiple sequencers to create more randomness and change..but the ideal sequencer should already be able to control everything ,and per track, have as much control of you want overall musical variables, including multiple types of chance operations. The Five12 Vector does this, and the Cirklon, I think.
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Post by electricanada »

chaosick wrote:
mosorensen wrote:I use a channel of Nerdseq to sequence Rene2, which I like to use for playing around with pitches. I trigger it from the Nerdseq, and this way it is easy to send rhythms into Rene.

I think of it as kind of a "complex sequencer" where one sequencer sequences another, analogously to a "complex oscillator" where one oscillator modulates another.
I know you're not alone in this, but have always wondered why people feel the need for this--if you do, it seems more like the sequencers you're using are deficient in a way. The analogy doesn't really hold up, because audio rate modulation (oscillator to another oscillator) produces results that are distinctly different from voltage, because you are quantitatively moving into a higher frequency. I gather that people use multiple sequencers to create more randomness and change..but the ideal sequencer should already be able to control everything ,and per track, have as much control of you want overall musical variables, including multiple types of chance operations. The Five12 Vector does this, and the Cirklon, I think.
For me, patch programming a sequence out of several simple modules is easier and much more fun than operating a little computer in a module. I come to modular to get away from computers. I’m not fanatical about it; patch programming is just more fun for me.
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Post by Virusinstaller »

Have you considered the Westlicht Performer Sequencer? It's currently DIY only, but has many tricks up it's leave such as integration with a lauchpad for piano roll style note sequencing and visually seeing 64 steps. It has all the bells and whistles of other sequencers too. Highly recommended.
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Post by Ruiner »

Virusinstaller wrote:Have you considered the Westlicht Performer Sequencer? It's currently DIY only, but has many tricks up it's leave such as integration with a lauchpad for piano roll style note sequencing and visually seeing 64 steps. It has all the bells and whistles of other sequencers too. Highly recommended.
Yup, mentioned that in the OP as one of the few I'm interested in that I haven't tried yet.

Pretty torn between trying that or the Five12 Vector first.
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Post by chaosick »

electricanada wrote:
chaosick wrote:
mosorensen wrote:I use a channel of Nerdseq to sequence Rene2, which I like to use for playing around with pitches. I trigger it from the Nerdseq, and this way it is easy to send rhythms into Rene.

I think of it as kind of a "complex sequencer" where one sequencer sequences another, analogously to a "complex oscillator" where one oscillator modulates another.
I know you're not alone in this, but have always wondered why people feel the need for this--if you do, it seems more like the sequencers you're using are deficient in a way. The analogy doesn't really hold up, because audio rate modulation (oscillator to another oscillator) produces results that are distinctly different from voltage, because you are quantitatively moving into a higher frequency. I gather that people use multiple sequencers to create more randomness and change..but the ideal sequencer should already be able to control everything ,and per track, have as much control of you want overall musical variables, including multiple types of chance operations. The Five12 Vector does this, and the Cirklon, I think.
For me, patch programming a sequence out of several simple modules is easier and much more fun than operating a little computer in a module. I come to modular to get away from computers. I’m not fanatical about it; patch programming is just more fun for me.
I don't "make" any music on a computer at all, aside from at the mixing and mastering level, and the vast majority of my modules are analog, without even leds (none of this blinking epileptic inducing studio rooms that have become the de facto image of a eurorack system), but if the sequencer is good, I strongly disagree. The Five12 Vector is nothing like "operating a little computer" in the way you're thinking of it. It is really quick and easy to use, it doesn't strain my eyes, and there are encoders for every step for whatever operation you want to use. It's a little strange to me that when almost everyone is using a sequencer that is at its core digital to begin with people complain of such things..just because you want an extremely limited digital sequencer? :hmm:
If you are using pure analog sequencers, then you may have a legitimate alternative, and in which case, I salute you, but those ain't going to make complex multi track music!
In any case, I used a stillson hammer mk2 for 3 years, it was great, also heard plenty of people complaining about that for various reasons so whatever. Five12 vector is both fun and easy to use, try it!
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Post by plogbidman »

For me, patch programming a sequence out of several simple modules is easier and much more fun than operating a little computer in a module. I come to modular to get away from computers. I’m not fanatical about it; patch programming is just more fun for me.
I think exactly the same way. For me, using just an A-160 and a mixer to make sequences is much fun and meaningful than using the last complex sequencer in date. Because once you know how this duo works, you know how to go farther and get more and more complex sequences from simple modules.
But if i had to make a definitive choice about a sequencer, my choice would be the A-155/A-154 combo. I have two of these combos. I just love them. Intuitive, simple, direct, really quick and easy to use, nothing to learn, no manual to read, and much more capable of complex sequences than one could think at first glance.
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Post by sleepmute »

Korg SQ-1: Simple and fun but also capable of some surprising results. It's really playable and easy to operate. Having two sets of CV/Gate lets you run separate sequences simultaneously or use one of them to modulate. I also like being able to change the voltage range on the fly, and switching to Hz/V can sometimes give musical and interesting results.

Downsides: it doesn't stay in time when you change modes. Limited to major, minor, and chromatic scales, but linear mode means I could use an external quantizer, I assume, if I ever get one. I wish it had step repeats (it kinda does, but you have to do it manually with step jump, and it isn't always easy to do it smoothly). The sync in/out can be finicky, and having to enter the global mode to change the pulse division (which isn't even in the manual) is annoying.

Still, it's $150, so I can't really complain.

Arturia Keystep: Mylar makes it look so good in his video, but I find it really finicky and annoying to use.

I've been wanting a dedicated sequencer module for a while, particularly Metropolis, but good lord are they ever expensive. I don't exactly feel like I can justify the price at this point.
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Post by chaosick »

Aja wrote:Korg SQ-1: Simple and fun but also capable of some surprising results. It's really playable and easy to operate. Having two sets of CV/Gate lets you run separate sequences simultaneously or use one of them to modulate. I also like being able to change the voltage range on the fly, and switching to Hz/V can sometimes give musical and interesting results.

Downsides: it doesn't stay in time when you change modes. Limited to major, minor, and chromatic scales, but linear mode means I could use an external quantizer, I assume, if I ever get one. I wish it had step repeats (it kinda does, but you have to do it manually with step jump, and it isn't always easy to do it smoothly). The sync in/out can be finicky, and having to enter the global mode to change the pulse division (which isn't even in the manual) is annoying.

Still, it's $150, so I can't really complain.

Arturia Keystep: Mylar makes it look so good in his video, but I find it really finicky and annoying to use.

I've been wanting a dedicated sequencer module for a while, particularly Metropolis, but good lord are they ever expensive. I don't exactly feel like I can justify the price at this point.
The metropolis *is* expensive for a single track sequencer that's essentially a glorified arpeggiator. What's *not* expensive when you consider what they do, and the number of different modules you'd need to begin to achieve the same results, are the more complex multi track sequencers of the past few years like the vector, stillson hammer, nerd seq, etc. especially if you look at what equivalent such things cost in the past. Basically for the same price as a decent monosynth you can have melodic and rhythmic control over 4-8 voices. Seems pretty fair to me.
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Ruiner
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Post by Ruiner »

Re: NERD SEQ

One of the biggest downsides that keep me from wanting to learn and use it is the way I create. I don't have a lot of theory knowledge so it seems SUPER tedious to me to go in and pick out notes and have to look up what notes go in that key when I can go to say FLXS1 and select a key and ONLY those notes will show up or I can go to say POLYEND SEQ and select a key, hit random, and random notes in that key as well as rests are placed and I can keep hitting that and finding a melody I like and THEN go switch a few things out and there I have my starting melody which I can base a song around. That's just how I work.

Well, I just talked to the NERD SEQ creator, Thomas, and he said the above is a highly requested feature and when he returns from Superbooth he'll be working on those kinds of features which almost makes me want to hold on to the Nerd and learn it now so that when those features become available I can have the immediacy I crave in a sequencer but also all the comprehensive deep features it offers if and when I want to use them. He also say he'll be working on polyphony and chords that will be out sometime in 2019. All that as well as more expansions. That's some great news and will make it hard to decide whether to keep NERD or not. I suppose for me it will depend on how the FIVE12 Vector and TORAIZ SQUID work for me as I have both of those on order and incoming. We shall see!
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Re: All Things Sequencers

Post by mmpingo »

Ruiner wrote:RENE mk2: I had the mk1 and never used it. (...) I can see why people love it but not sure it's for me.
So actually why people love it? Can you also tell more about cons from your point of view, please?
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Re: All Things Sequencers

Post by Ruiner »

mmpingo wrote:
Ruiner wrote:RENE mk2: I had the mk1 and never used it. (...) I can see why people love it but not sure it's for me.
So actually why people love it? Can you also tell more about cons from your point of view, please?
Just the fact there's no screens, it has a matrix, the snake options, the cv options... it's more of a playable sequencer in my eyes. I think it's more of an on the fly type of thing than picking out specific notes and placing them. I really can't say as I haven't used it much but that's just my immediate opinion on what I know about it.
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Post by BLogic12 »

Ruiner wrote:Re: NERD SEQ

One of the biggest downsides that keep me from wanting to learn and use it is the way I create. I don't have a lot of theory knowledge so it seems SUPER tedious to me to go in and pick out notes and have to look up what notes go in that key when I can go to say FLXS1 and select a key and ONLY those notes will show up or I can go to say POLYEND SEQ and select a key, hit random, and random notes in that key as well as rests are placed and I can keep hitting that and finding a melody I like and THEN go switch a few things out and there I have my starting melody which I can base a song around. That's just how I work.

Well, I just talked to the NERD SEQ creator, Thomas, and he said the above is a highly requested feature and when he returns from Superbooth he'll be working on those kinds of features which almost makes me want to hold on to the Nerd and learn it now so that when those features become available I can have the immediacy I crave in a sequencer but also all the comprehensive deep features it offers if and when I want to use them. He also say he'll be working on polyphony and chords that will be out sometime in 2019. All that as well as more expansions. That's some great news and will make it hard to decide whether to keep NERD or not. I suppose for me it will depend on how the FIVE12 Vector and TORAIZ SQUID work for me as I have both of those on order and incoming. We shall see!
so hes adding scales/quantization? NICE
it recently got clock division/multiplication per track too, one of the essential features it was lacking before
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Post by DearDeparted »

chaosick wrote:
mosorensen wrote:I use a channel of Nerdseq to sequence Rene2, which I like to use for playing around with pitches. I trigger it from the Nerdseq, and this way it is easy to send rhythms into Rene.

I think of it as kind of a "complex sequencer" where one sequencer sequences another, analogously to a "complex oscillator" where one oscillator modulates another.
I know you're not alone in this, but have always wondered why people feel the need for this--if you do, it seems more like the sequencers you're using are deficient in a way. The analogy doesn't really hold up, because audio rate modulation (oscillator to another oscillator) produces results that are distinctly different from voltage, because you are quantitatively moving into a higher frequency. I gather that people use multiple sequencers to create more randomness and change..but the ideal sequencer should already be able to control everything ,and per track, have as much control of you want overall musical variables, including multiple types of chance operations. The Five12 Vector does this, and the Cirklon, I think.
I think "sequencing the sequencer" is not an indication of any deficiencies in any of the sequencers being used, but rather just another technique to generate variations and switching between sections of sequences/voltages. None other than Suzanne Ciani does it all the time with her MARF.
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Post by j259 »

knifey wrote:
I think "sequencing the sequencer" is not an indication of any deficiencies in any of the sequencers being used, but rather just another technique to generate variations and switching between sections of sequences/voltages. None other than Suzanne Ciani does it all the time with her MARF.
Yeah and the 251e stored voltages to MARF approach is very modular.

Whereas a lot of the sequencers in eurorack are not that modular, meaning that there's no arbitrary timing and tempo per line, and then cv control over additional features like direction, jumps and so on.

The impressive thing about Rene and Rene2 is that they are both very physical and modular in control over cv values, timing, gates, and pattern/direction, logic or S&H respectively, and for Rene2 Z.Reset. For Rene2 I only wish you could use a keyboard to enter the values and chain patterns without zmod.

That said, my ideal sequencer would be something like a multitrack Control Forge or Five12 vector but with a more physical interface, and support for unquantized live record from external cv keyboard.
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