FIVE12 Eurorack Vector Sequencer

[mdoudoroff]

Yes, I understood that “intervals” was mainly a display/representational thing. Could be a better option for those of us using Sinfonions.

[joskery]

The launchpad integration looks great. Vector is now (in my opinion) just real time recording away from being full on Numerology+ in a box

Md: Not sure if that’s what you meant, but I think the reference to intervals was just how the pitches read out on the screen ... e.g., III instead of E if you’re in C major scale. Good intuitive option given oscillator tunings can be whatever you want. Sequencing multi note intervals is in chord mode though

Wasn’t sure what sequencing in intervals meant either. There is an option for transposing pitch by CV, and one of the choices restricts transposition to 5ths and Octaves.

Real time recording is probably still a ways off I think.

It’s still planned and all, but more often requested features have been a priority (as should be). Hoping it’ll come soonish!

[mdoudoroff]

Yesterday I got my Vector up and running. So far so good. There’s a lot of menus/screens to internalize! Coming from the Komplex, it’s a bit of a shock despite all the videos I’ve watched and rewatched. Nevertheless, I’m getting around fairly well already.

I’m a bit surprised to realize the subsequences cannot modulate gate length, repeats/ratches or glide—those were all direct mod destinations I was used to having on the Komplex, and it’s not immediately obvious to me why they would be omitted here.

On the plus-side, the whole presets/scenes thing is pretty great—and maybe the main reason I’m here. If I make full peace with Vector, I can see a launchpad in my future just to surface a UI for that.

I’ve read some of the prior chatter about clocking Vector with PNW—does anyone have a conclusion about which settings on each work best?

[joskery]

Yeah, for me it seems the Vector is pretty largely a WIP, still – that doesn't mean it isn't very powerful already, but just that it's missing some features you'd absolutely expect to be there.

[Dark Barn]

Yesterday I got my Vector up and running. So far so good. There’s a lot of menus/screens to internalize! Coming from the Komplex, it’s a bit of a shock despite all the videos I’ve watched and rewatched. Nevertheless, I’m getting around fairly well already.

I’m a bit surprised to realize the subsequences cannot modulate gate length, repeats/ratches or glide—those were all direct mod destinations I was used to having on the Komplex, and it’s not immediately obvious to me why they would be omitted here.

On the plus-side, the whole presets/scenes thing is pretty great—and maybe the main reason I’m here. If I make full peace with Vector, I can see a launchpad in my future just to surface a UI for that.

I’ve read some of the prior chatter about clocking Vector with PNW—does anyone have a conclusion about which settings on each work best?

You can CV address gate length and ratchet, I’m not sure about glide. For me using Pam’s as a master I get best results using midi. My Pam’s itself is sometimes slaved to my Es-3/daw. Partly because of where Pam’s and Es-3 are in my case I haven’t tried using Vector as the master to Pam’s.

[mdoudoroff]

I’ve read some of the prior chatter about clocking Vector with PNW—does anyone have a conclusion about which settings on each work best?

For me using Pam’s as a master I get best results using midi. My Pam’s itself is sometimes slaved to my Es-3/daw. Partly because of where Pam’s and Es-3 are in my case I haven’t tried using Vector as the master to Pam’s.

Well, I’ve recently been through hell and back getting Bitwig to clock PNW through the ES-3—it’s a testy relationship whether the ES-3 is between them or not. Ideally, I would clock Vector from either the ES-3 or from PNW. Unless there are transport control implications I haven’t sussed out yet, I probably don’t care which. I would prefer to avoid MIDI if I can (and I don’t have a MIDI expander for PNW at this time). I’m definitely interested in insights; meanwhile, I’ll just go try some things and see what happens.

[kesserich]

Well, I’ve recently been through hell and back getting Bitwig to clock PNW through the ES-3—it’s a testy relationship whether the ES-3 is between them or not. Ideally, I would clock Vector from either the ES-3 or from PNW. Unless there are transport control implications I haven’t sussed out yet, I probably don’t care which. I would prefer to avoid MIDI if I can (and I don’t have a MIDI expander for PNW at this time). I’m definitely interested in insights; meanwhile, I’ll just go try some things and see what happens.

What software are you using to send the clock out of bitwig into PNW? I had the same problem using bitwig's built-in sync device- it's clock was just sloppy. I switched over to the expert sleepers sync plugin and everything locks perfectly. This is via ES3 although i agree that's not really relevant.

[Zymos]

I use Vector as master, but here’s what Jim says to do to sync it to PNW-
“ For sync with the Pamelas New Workout, my recommendation is to have one out on PNW set to RUN -- connect that to RUN on the Vector. Set another PNW output to 24 PPQN, then route that to CLOCK on the Vector. Then set the Vector to RC24, which means "run & clock, 24 PPQN", which is basically the same as DIN sync.”

[mdoudoroff]

Yeah, the HW Clock device in Bitwig is utterly unacceptable to PNW. Moreover, the HW Clock device in Bitwig does not have an option to produce a run gate, which is something else PNW might like to have (at least for some purposes). I have complained to Bitwig on both counts, and I encourage you to the same—the more complaints they receive, the more likely they are to fix it. (I’ve examined the HW Clock output on the scope, and it doesn’t seem that bad so I’not sure what the hell is going on.)

For clocking PNW from Bitwig, I’m using the technique outlined here (scroll down to Sagetone’s post), in which you create a clock from the Grid’s phase:

2020-07-12 at 3.25 PM.jpg (9.62 KiB) Viewed 1258 times

Interestingly, this Grid-based clock runs non-stop, irrespective of Bitwig’s transport. In some ways, I suspect this behavior is preferable. To match that signal, I have PNW set to 48 PPQN.

I’ve run a few tests trying to clock Vector directly from Bitwig via the ES-3, and Vector is having none of it, no matter what I try. I even get a strange error code “sd cmd queue err” that appears on the Vector’s screens.

However, I do seem to be successfully clocking both Vector and Metron from PNW (which is clocked by Bitwig as per above)! For Vector, I’m using an output with a square wave at x24. In conjunction with that, I have an output that putting out a square wave of 100% width, giving me a run gate that corresponds to PNW’s transport. For Metron, I’m sending it a square wave at 1x. I have overall transport control with PNW’s yellow button. Not sure about consistently resetting Metron, though—I haven’t thought that through yet.

[mvdirty]

Yes, I understood that “intervals” was mainly a display/representational thing. Could be a better option for those of us using Sinfonions.

Agreed. This could well put the Vector even further into one of the best possible positions for Sinfonion owners.

[MikeLeeBirds]

Yes, I understood that “intervals” was mainly a display/representational thing. Could be a better option for those of us using Sinfonions.

Agreed. This could well put the Vector even further into one of the best possible positions for Sinfonion owners.

Can you elaborate? I have Vector and Sinfonion and don‘t quite understand what you mean.

[davidjames]

For Metron, I’m sending it a square wave at 1x. I have overall transport control with PNW’s yellow button. Not sure about consistently resetting Metron, though—I haven’t thought that through yet.

Not to derail the thread but quickly on resetting Metron...from PNW I tried using the “pulse on stop” setting from a channel to Metron’s reset input, but it doesn’t consistently reset it, not sure who’s to blame on that. So I use a square wave (gate) set to /16, width around 15%, that seems pretty solid. For clocking I use gate at x24 and have metron set for 24ppqn.

I’m clocking vector the same way you described and using one of the trigger inputs on the expander to do per-part resets.

[neumedi]

I use Vector as master, but here’s what Jim says to do to sync it to PNW-
“ For sync with the Pamelas New Workout, my recommendation is to have one out on PNW set to RUN -- connect that to RUN on the Vector. Set another PNW output to 24 PPQN, then route that to CLOCK on the Vector. Then set the Vector to RC24, which means "run & clock, 24 PPQN", which is basically the same as DIN sync.”

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly... so 2 PNW outputs to sync with Vector?

Has anyone been successful in having Vector as the leader and PNW as follower? With the Five12 Jack Expander, I have a lot more unused outs than I do with PNW. Would be nice to use one of Jack Expander's outs along with PNW Clk and/or Run input to have then in-sync but leave open all of PNW's 8 outputs (for envelopes, LFO's, etc).

Either that, or add Vector firmware code to give PNW-like functionality (phase, length, etc) to Jack Expander's 8 triggers.

[XiXora]

I use Vector as master, but here’s what Jim says to do to sync it to PNW-
“ For sync with the Pamelas New Workout, my recommendation is to have one out on PNW set to RUN -- connect that to RUN on the Vector. Set another PNW output to 24 PPQN, then route that to CLOCK on the Vector. Then set the Vector to RC24, which means "run & clock, 24 PPQN", which is basically the same as DIN sync.”

Just to make sure I'm understanding correctly... so 2 PNW outputs to sync with Vector?

Has anyone been successful in having Vector as the leader and PNW as follower? With the Five12 Jack Expander, I have a lot more unused outs than I do with PNW. Would be nice to use one of Jack Expander's outs along with PNW Clk and/or Run input to have then in-sync but leave open all of PNW's 8 outputs (for envelopes, LFO's, etc).

Either that, or add Vector firmware code to give PNW-like functionality (phase, length, etc) to Jack Expander's 8 triggers.

You don't understand quite right there. On the main module of Vector, the first two (on the top left) jacks are run and clock. Connect those into the top of the PNW at Clock and Run. Make sure you check the global menu for the the RC24 from the run/clock page. This will keep your PNW outputs all free along with all your Vector trigger outputs.

I ran like this for a while but now use PNW as master with the sync on the expander.

[Zymos]

@neumedi
Post above explains it, but personally I find it just as easy to have Vector control everything- I’m sending clock from it to PNW and QCD, and from those to Metron and other stuff. And using the Jexp triggers to clock delays and more.

I’m not sure why anyone wouldn’t just use Vector as the master, though it seems like some people that don’t are also clocking from a DAW, which isn’t my scene....

[droningspaghettimonster]

regarding bitwigs hw clock device + vector

I agree with mdoudoroff, forgetting an run gate is a serious oversight of the developers for the hw sync device. i've contacted them before regarding this matter to no avail. however, having a dummy clip in the arranger with a long midi note for the duration of your projects time, since the hw device track is already there. its the only run gate substitute i'm aware of, and is still much neater than my deafult ableton template for all my sync/CC devices etc...

however, getting es3 and vector to talk thru bitwig is kinda hard since the clock output is way too hot and needs to be attenuated alot before going into vector. i was able to mess around with the output levels on rme's totalmix (ufx) and eventually I found a correct setting for 100% sample accurate and tight bitwig/vector rc24 sync, and i've got another totalmix template for ableton, but experts sleepers sync pluggin sends out normal clock levels without any need to attenuate. I've contacted Bitwig before regarding way too hot clock levels compared to hw instrument device gate and they are aware of the issue, but it's obviously no priority since years months and months have passed.

good luck with getting bitwig + vector in sync with es3, i can confirm it is possible with rme before the grid so it should be possible with any interface who has level controls of the adat outputs but it could be an trial and error thing since levels are important. if anyone has a r24 sync grid device with a run gate to be routed thu es3 i'm very interested.

[Dark Barn]

Well the Silent Way plugin does have a run gate and also the output gain can be scaled within the plugin. It’s compatible with Bitwig although I have only used it in Logic. I think it costs $60.

[droningspaghettimonster]

I've yet to find a way to make the sw sync plugin function with Bitwigs delay compensation. we need to route the clock through external hardware fx device to compensate for latency in Live, but I could not get it to work that way in Bitwig. the HW clock device had no problems with latency but finetuning the levels to function with Vector was kinda tiresome and should work just as seemingly as the HW instrument device, which has no problems with outputting way too hot gates. inconsistencies like this are something you just get used to in Bitwig. they fixed another bug I noticed some months ago in the HW clock device but have not really confirmed weather or not the clock output levels are bug or not, but they sure are aware of it... as well as the lack of run output...

it should be easy enough to create clock device in the grid which is specifically focused on es3/8/9 + vector with proper level attenuations/right clock multiplications/run output that follows transport until bitwig fix/update the clock device. i'm too relied on ableton at the moment to mess with the grid but i'm planing on migrating eventually.

[mvdirty]

re: sequencing displayed in intervals...

Can you elaborate? I have Vector and Sinfonion and don‘t quite understand what you mean.

If the Vector gains a display option to sequence selected parts (those feeding Sinfonion channels using Input Follows Root) in a key rooted on C but displaying intervals then it will make things easier to understand as the Sinfonion Root and Degree are sequenced or otherwise altered.

(Channels not using Input Follows Root can be sequenced in a chosen key, with or without interval display, or simply chromatically.)

For more detail as to why, check out the recent replies in the Sinfonion thread.

[MikeLeeBirds]

If the Vector gains a display option to sequence selected parts (those feeding Sinfonion channels using Input Follows Root) in a key rooted on C but displaying intervals then it will make things easier to understand as the Sinfonion Root and Degree are sequenced or otherwise altered.

(Channels not using Input Follows Root can be sequenced in a chosen key, with or without interval display, or simply chromatically.)

For more detail as to why, check out the recent replies in the Sinfonion thread.

Thanks, I understand it a bit better now. Will check the Sinfonion thread.

[Clumsy]

I really enjoying my new Vector Sequencer and Jack Expander. Initially I just bought the sequencer, but I went back a few days later and was able to get the expander with the matching serial number. I didn't know when I got the expander that it could replace Pamela's New Workout for basic clocking needs, which makes the expense seem more reasonable (and frees up Pam's for clocked modulation). I still send the trigger on start to the Sinfonion from Pam's because the Vector doesn't seem to have that option on any of it's outputs.

I use the Vector as the master and sync Pam's with the clock output (Vector's clock set to "S24". A run signal isn't needed because I think that's only useful to Pam's if it's getting a clock before it gets the run). I started by using Pam's as the master, but I'm also syncing a Sinfonion and sending it a trigger at the start to reset the chord sequencer, and with Pam's as the master the chord changes seemed a little out of sync with gates from the Vector. Also with Pam's as the master some Vector gates would remain on when I stopped Pam's, which no longer happens.

I love the sequence generator (for the the kind of music I'm trying to make "357" is my favorite). I can't write a melody but I can spot a nice one when I hear it. I'm kind of excited by the possibilities opened up by the ability to set the step length: I don't know if any other Eurorack sequencers have this feature, but it's really a paradigm shift from dealing with the usual eight or 16 or (or whatever) step sequences. I haven't even tried the Chance Ops yet.

The only problem I have with the Vector sequencer is that I get some glitches in the gate signal when switching between presets with playlists. I've contacted Five12 support, so hopefully that will get sorted out,

[mdoudoroff]

I explored the whole clocking and reset situation more today. I began with clocking Vector from PNW with a 24x pulse wave and Vector in RC24 mode, as per my comment above. I then noticed that Metron and Vector weren’t lining up, and I was unable to repair that with phase adjustment on PNW. I also found that the RESET jack on Vector didn’t seem to do anything in RC24 mode. So I’ve bailed on RC24 and am now clocking Vector in CR/4 mode using a slower pulse train from PNW. Reset now works, and most importantly, Metron and Vector are lining up perfectly.

The adventure continues.

[nodog]

Okay, I just bought a secondhand jack expander and can't connect it to the main board due to pins stuck in the plugs. They're at certain places on both sides of the cable so it seems it's on purpose. The connectors on the expander have both a pin missing in the place the plugs are supposed to fit. the pins in the plug on the other side prevent the plug to be able to fit in the connector on the main board.

Do I have a problem with different builds or has someone just sold me a module with destroyed connectors and cables that are unusable? I would like to know this before contacting the seller. Five12 doesn't seem to have a contact email on their site which sucks.

[Dark Barn]

You can reach FIVE12 chief James Coker at jim@five12.com

[nodog]

Thank you very much