REAKTOR Blocks 1.2 - midi out from blocks to external synths

[Moon Indigo]

Hello to all. I bought Reaktor 6 two nights ago and am LOVING it. I have been building some fun ensembles.

I am wondering if anyone can help with an issue I am having.

I want to trigger two external synths, via two separate midi out blocks,within the same ensemble.

The midi chain is Reaktor 6 (as VST) --> two midi tracks in Live 9.6 --> Forcusrite scarlett 6i6 --> synths.

I am using midi USB for one synth, and a midi cable for the other. One synth receives only on midi channel 1. The other only recieved on midi channel 2.

I am routing the midi from reaktor through Ableton by sselecting midi from: reaktor/reaktor on the Ableton midi tracks.

The problem is, I can't seem to configure Ableton so that each ableton midi channel recieved the midi from A DIFFERENT REAKTOR BLOCK.

I only seem to be able to select Reaktor as a whole, not midi channels within Reaktor. This means, despite the midi blocks inside reaktor being set to the correct midi channels (i.e. channel 1 and 2), what feeds through to Ableton is one single stream of midi. In the properties

REaktor instrument properties "connect" panel is set to External = "All," midi channel = 1 and 2 (respectively for each midi out block)

This means I can't have each of my synths triggered by a different Reaktor midi block.

I tried triggering the synths directly from reaktor (i.e. bypassing ABleton, but still running Reaktor as a VST), but can't find a way to do this, I think Ableton takes over the midi side of the Focusrtie.

There must be a way to achieve what I want to do - i.e. one synth per Reaktor midi block, but I can't for the life of me figure it out.

Any help is very appreciated!




Each of the midi blocks themselves

[Moon Indigo]

Further to this, my searching has found that someone else has had the same problem, it turns out the problem is with Ableton, which doesn't filter incoming midi, and just outputs it as a stream. This person has suggested a smart, but very laborious workaround using osc and Mac porting. Not a hugely appealing solution !

Any other ideas?

[/ame]

[Moon Indigo]

Hello all Reaktor users.

I have done further research on this, and found out that this is a well recognised missing feature in Ableton (i.e. the inability to separately route midi channel data from a VST into multiple Ableton midi tracks, for sending to different external devices or soft synths).

This is unfortunate because my dream of building beautiful single-ensemble generative midi sequencers with Reaktor Blocks for my external gear won't come true.

Options for getting around this are:

1. Running Reaktor standalone, and feed the audio into Ableton (not sue if this is possible, and may have midi synch issues with Albleton when running other devices inside Ableton).
2. The workaround in the youtube video above using OSC in Reaktor and porting, external to Ableton, inside the Mac.
3. Finding a M4L device that addresses this issue (obviously this is the best option, but I haven't found anything yet).
4. Move to a different DAW (not a good option because I have a Push 2 and like Ableton).
5. Wait for Ableton to fix this (not likely - it has been a recognised issue for many years).
6. Use CV data instead of midi, which means buying a DC coupled audio interface, a good solution, but expensive.
7. Run multiple Reaktor ensembles inside Ableton. Means I can't have my beautiful all in one Blocks ensemble doing the work.


Any other thoughts, especially on a M4L fix for this, are very welcome!

[Moon Indigo]

Further to this, my searching has found that someone else has had the same problem, it turns out the problem is with Ableton, which doesn't filter incoming midi, and just outputs it as a stream. This person has suggested a smart, but very laborious workaround using osc and Mac porting. Not a hugely appealing solution !

Any other ideas?

[/ame]

Hi all. Further to my posts above, I have just watched the youtube video above again with a solution using OSC / IAC, and it doesn't seem as daunting this time. I am going to try it!

Still happy to hear any other comments, experiences.

[secretkillerofnames]

Does this help with what you want to do?

[Moon Indigo]

Does this help with what you want to do?

Based on the description, this looks very promising:

"You could, for example, load multiple instruments into the same instance of Native Instrument's Kontakt and use Distribute to automatically create separate MIDI and Audio tracks for those instruments."

The question is whether it gets around Ableton's (inconvenient) summing of midi into a single channel.

Thanks, I will look closely at this device.

[Moon Indigo]

Does this help with what you want to do?

Hi there. No, I have looked at this, and this neat m4l device (which creates midi tracks for sending from Ableton TO a VST), does not do what I need.

What I need is:

- to create separate midi tracks, inside ableton, which receive midi output, sent from two different midi channels in a single instance of Reaktor (as VST). Just like for Audio, Ableton lets you select whether an audio track receives, say, a kick or drum part (as audio), I want to be able to select, from a midi track in Ableton, whether that track receives (say) midi channel 1, or midi channel 2, coming from the Reaktor VST.

The problem is caused by Ableton summing ALL midi from any single VST, into a single summed midi track. (i.e. if 2 midi channels are output from Realktor, Ableton receives both of them, and sums them, and will not receive them independently.

That is what needs to be addressed in the M4L device I am looking for.

Thanks for your help!

[bobbylandry]

I thought I was going crazy not being able to do this a couple weeks ago and found all the same info online that you guys did. I got a couple Samplers going at once with key splits in an instrument rack but that was only so useful.

[Moon Indigo]

I thought I was going crazy not being able to do this a couple weeks ago and found all the same info online that you guys did. I got a couple Samplers going at once with key splits in an instrument rack but that was only so useful.

Good to hear someone else is having the same issue. I wonder how hard it would be for a M4L guru to build a device to address this?

I would have thought there would be a small market for this, to cover dev costs. When you start searching the web, many people have run into this issue.

Any m4L gurus care to take up the challenge?

[Moon Indigo]

For now I am working on a solution using OSC (open sound control). In Reaktor. It will involve sending data from one instance of Reaktor to another instance of Reaktor (the second instance on a different Ableton channel) and sending midi from that second instance to my external device. This will enable me to route around the Ableton limitation, giving me two independent sources of midi (both ultimately sourced from the same Blocs ensemble) for sending o my external synths.

It is a similar concept to the video from 2013 I posted above, but it is easier in 2016 because there appear to be prebuilt Reaktir objects that simplify the process. I have my instances of Reaktor sending and receiving data, and the recipient converting the received stream to pitch, so it should be a small step to further convert that pitch to midi for sending to external Synth 2.

I am enjoying learning about the OSC protocol. (I am new to all this).

None of this should be necessary since Ableton should have addressed this limitation years ago, but it is what it is.

[Moon Indigo]

A further update on this. I got a send and receive OSC device talking to each other across two different instances of Reaktor. But getting them to pass midi pitch notes between them was beyond my level of skill. I might start a new thread on the NI forums about that actually.

[digitaleyes]

A further update on this. I got a send and receive OSC device talking to each other across two different instances of Reaktor. But getting them to pass midi pitch notes between them was beyond my level of skill. I might start a new thread on the NI forums about that actually.

Any luck Moon Indigo? So frustrating Live is limited like this

[Moon Indigo]

Hi Digital eyes. No I never got a workable solution to this unfortunately. I was able to do this in Reaper, but missed Live and didn't want to change DAW. So I have just learned to live with the limitation.

[listentoaheartbeat]

As a workaround, you can split the voices into different note ranges.

1. Transpose one of the Pitch signals in Blocks down x octaves by adding an offset of 0.1/octave (3 octaves in the example below).
2. Use the Pitch MIDI effect on the corresponding MIDI track in Ableton to limit the note range accordingly, and to transpose the output up x octaves (3 octaves in the example below). This works since the Pitch MIDI effect first filters the input, and then applies the offset.
3. Use the Pitch MIDI effect on the other MIDI track to limit the note range, in this case excluding the range used in the first track.

[mpl]

Hi
In Reaktor 6.1 they added ableton link,which syncs the stand alone of reaktor to live,there is no stop and start(at least i haven't found a way yet), but tempo and start up(works by starting on the next bar round).
So far tests are good.
This may solve your midi routing problems with out all that osc stuff.
mike

[digitaleyes]

Thanks Mike,

Yeah I was able to output midi to standalone to Reaktor, and then re-import back to Live, I had some issues with the modules that I wrote for Reaktor but I'm guessing this was user error.

However my main intentions is to have everything controlled within Ableton. Their controller surface support can't be beat by any other.

Nonetheless you can easily sync with the Standalone version of Reaktor 6.

L.T.A.H.B. that is actually somewhat a viable workaround. CHEERS

[aaooaa]

If I'm understanding the problem correctly I think this Spektro M4L device might help you route MIDI to seperate channel outputs..

http://spektroaudio.com/distribute

[digitaleyes]

If I'm understanding the problem correctly I think this Spektro M4L device might help you route MIDI to seperate channel outputs..

http://spektroaudio.com/distribute

This looks as if this tool only creates separate midi tracks to route back in to the desired track. I don't see anything mentioning that this will route multiple midi channels out from a single track. I could be wrong but I'm not spending $10 to find out

From the website "Instead of having to manually create additional audio outputs and MIDI inputs for your plugins, you can use Distribute to automatically create, rename and route as many additional tracks as you need."