Serge Smooth & Stepped Generator (SSG)

[Dogma]

http://randomsource.net/serge_euro

im kinda speechless

Ah, ill take 2 thanks

[Navs]

I'm going to get my knuckles rapped by the Serge mob, but I think the Toppobrillo Sport Modulator works better than the original SSG. For the record, I think the same is true of Maths vs. the Serge slopes.

[Montgomery Word]

I'm going to get my knuckles rapped by the Serge mob, but I think the Toppobrillo Sport Modulator works better than the original SSG. For the record, I think the same is true of Maths vs. the Serge slopes.

I was just gonna ask what was the major differences between this and Maths.

[wavecircle]

The SSG is a different idea from maths, like navs states, the sport modulator is the euro take on the SSG.

I don't think there is much difference in all honesty, I just prefer Serge because the format is nicer and I have a lot more trust in the build quality. There are certainly things which the maths does which a DUSG doesn't, having the log to expo knob is really handy too but you can fix that in Serge with a single cable.

[listentoaheartbeat]

The SSG is a different idea from maths, like navs states, the sport modulator is the euro take on the SSG.

I don't think there is much difference in all honesty

Well, the SSG has two different sections, while the SM has two identical sections that unite the functionality of both of the original sections. This changes the workflow quite a bit and allows for some different patches. On the other hand, there is no Cycle gate input on the SM, and no exponential slew (you can achive this by patching the output signal back into the CV input though). Also no bipolar comparator output. I've heard that the SM has far less voltage droop over time than the Serge, but I do not have any personal experience with the SSG.

[Dogma]

I'm going to get my knuckles rapped by the Serge mob, but I think the Toppobrillo Sport Modulator works better than the original SSG. For the record, I think the same is true of Maths vs. the Serge slopes.

Well i finally got my hands on a SM after a long hunt and im totally in love. JUst one of the amazing things ive found already is being able to hold a voltage like it does.
im building a 4U to go with my Phenol so im only probably gonna do the filter and continue with my 4U - thought it may be of interest to a bunch of people though
Not sure if any of you guys have tried the WMD/SSF Mini-slew but thats been a revelation as well....

[Yes Powder]

Between this and the Mother32, we're just a Euro Bucla away from Satan taking skiing lessons.

[Navs]

Yes, what I meant was that I think the Sport Modulator and Maths are improvements over the original circuits.

[wavecircle]

Yes, what I meant was that I think the Sport Modulator and Maths are improvements over the original circuits.

In which respect? There are many iterations of Serge designs. I am sure the maths and SM are both more stable than 70's Serge but Ralf is doing some great work with the Euro ports and is adapting those circuits. I haven't had any issues with my STS system regarding stability or performance.

[Navs]

That's a fair point. I'll shut up now.

[wavecircle]

Haha! I am not precious about my chosen format, I've had them all and like STS Serge the most. I am always keeping an eye on Euro though as it is by far, the most progressive format, just don't like the patching or the form of the format. I am genuinely interested in variations on the Serge. I think if Ralf ports the WVX and TWS, I will probably start a little system....... again. It will get out of hand and I will get frustrated with it, sell it and buy a few Serge panels.

[TheSolenoids]

So, what are the differences and similarities between the SSG or SM and the Steady State Fate Ultra Random Analog?

[rohelineoun]

So, what are the differences and similarities between the SSG or SM and the Steady State Fate Ultra Random Analog?

The URA is a clockable noise source with multiple S&Hs which are used to create a variety of random voltages and also has a the ability to slew some of those, how ever it is more of an entry in the family of randomness generators like the Wogglebug or Noisering. The comparator in either the SSG or SM can be used to create random voltages though.

I'm still trying to get my head around exactly what the SM does. Navs unofficial guide is most helpful to that end. Essentially it's a pair of sample and holds with slews. These can be cycled (which is the part I don't really get) to create triangle or staircase waves at low or audio rates. What makes it so useful is the way the pair of circuits are combined, like the Maths to allow for much more complex operations. I think that's why they get compared so often even though they are fundamentally different instruments.

[Footkerchief]

Having switches instead of memory-less buttons is a great feature -- really wish the SM had those (and bipolar OUT LEDs, and END LEDs)

[Navs]

I'm still trying to get my head around exactly what the SM does. Navs unofficial guide is most helpful to that end. Essentially it's a pair of sample and holds with slews. These can be cycled (which is the part I don't really get) to create triangle or staircase waves at low or audio rates.

Some of the classic Serge 'modules' share similar circuitry; different aspects are brought to the fore.

So, if you want a rough idea of what's going on in the SSG, you could read Tim Stinchcombe's page on the VCS (DUSG) or my breakdown of how an envelope works and explanation of a modification to the VCS/ DUSG:

http://www.timstinchcombe.co.uk/index.php?pge=vcs

http://navsmodularlab.blogspot.de/2015/ ... matic.html

http://navsmodularlab.blogspot.de/2013/ ... elope.html

The point being, that if you consider the SSG as a pair of integrators/ slews that can be interrupted/ held in their tracks, you'll understand the S&H aspect.

Ask away if it's still unclear!

[luketeaford]

Just got my Random*Source Smooth/Stepped Generator today and wanted to post a demo of the smooth sample and hold patch to prove it works on this module-- I saw some complaints on YouTube and that made me a little nervous...

[soundcloud url="https://api.soundcloud.com/tracks/318180271" params="auto_play=false&hide_related=false&show_comments=true&show_user=true&show_reposts=false&visual=true" width="100%" height="450" iframe="true" /]

First you hear the sequence being sampled played on a different oscillator, then I bring in the smooth sample and hold sequence, then leave off with a few seconds of just the smooth sample and hold patch. The SSG HOLD input is being clocked at a different rate than the sequencer with EOR from Maths.

[Biom]

Haha! I am not precious about my chosen format, I've had them all and like STS Serge the most. I am always keeping an eye on Euro though as it is by far, the most progressive format, just don't like the patching or the form of the format. I am genuinely interested in variations on the Serge. I think if Ralf ports the WVX and TWS, I will probably start a little system....... again. It will get out of hand and I will get frustrated with it, sell it and buy a few Serge panels.

Totally agreed.
I've started with Euro thinking the same: it's the most progressive platform, the sum of all the technology, collecting tons and tons of new modules, like others here, but the system wasn't getting more inspiring. In the end I realised that the mono-brand system isn't that bad, in fact it's even better, as you have modules thought out perfectly for interacting with each other to be a part of a musical instrument, instead of being a part of a wall of nonsense.
It's just amazing how inspiring and beautiful could a small STS system be, even without any VCO's! And you don't need more, you already have a lot.

So, for those who's asking about the differences, it's not the point, really. There's not much sense in adding 1-2 serge modules to a euro system. They won't work the way they were intended to.

[luketeaford]

When I was starting out I thought I'd want either a Euro or Serge system. Ultimately, I chose Euro because I think it's more easily configurable at the individual module level (and cheaper). The trade off is I think Serge panels force you to build up patching skills rather than constantly acquire more modules. Those systems seem to me designed to create a relationship between voltage and musical expression-- which is a pattern that could be completely avoided in Eurorack if every time you run into a limitation, you swap or buy new modules to overcome that problem.

I think 1-2 Serge modules are great in a Euro system precisely because they give you flexibility and choice and remind you that it is the player's responsibility to use the modules well. Look at what Serge players have been doing for decades with DUSG, SSG, etc and you will realize there is a bigger gap in your experience than in your case!

Of course, yes, it is possible to make a system that is "a wall of nonsense".

[Biom]

The trade off is I think Serge panels force you to build up patching skills rather than constantly acquire more modules.

It's an advantage, isn't it? Of course, you can always buy more, but it has nothing to do with euro addiction. I think it's a real problem and you can't avoid it, because every module is on it's own, doing its own thing, rather than being a part of an instrument.

Regarding the price, I'm not sure. You can buy a Make Noise Shared system or you can go with the same two rows of Serge for about the same price or even cheaper. I think the choice is obvious. And we didn't even mention the sound, the bananas and the beauty of the 4u format itself.

It is all subjective in the end and you choose what just works best, but I tell you, if you ever have patched the real thing, you'll be amazed how different/musical this experience is.
And if you run into a limitation with your Serge system, you just don't know it well, so yes, it forces you to know it perfectly, is that a disadvantage? Of course, its up to you - always buy the new fancy stuff or just learn better what you already have

[luketeaford]

Yes, I mean that having those fixed panels is the advantage Serge systems have over Euro! Also, any euro folks reading this, I have learned tons and heard some really inspiring music coming from the Buchla/Serge forum.

[waves_of_awesome]

sorry to revive a dead thread, but I want to check if this is normal - I have a Euro SSG - on the smooth side, if the expo switch is down, the module doesn't seem to respond to the VC rate input. With the expo switch up, it definitely responds to VC rate on the smooth side.

Is that normal, or do I have some troubleshooting to do?

[luketeaford]

if the expo switch is down, the module doesn't seem to respond to the VC rate input. With the expo switch up, it definitely responds to VC rate on the smooth side.

Is that normal, or do I have some troubleshooting to do?

On my Random*Source SSG, very few modules can make it respond at all to the VC Input with exponential switch UP (off). I notice if I use the poor man's oscilloscope by patching the signal out to something with LEDs that they just freeze up.

With nothing patched in, VC Rate works kinda like a fine tune on mine.

[Dcramer]

Does the stepped side have its own clock?
Is that what the rate knob does?

[moremagic]

no, on the stepped side, the rate is the rate (more like amount, i think) of change from the previous value--you can feed white noise into it, and dial it in so that each successive note is within an octave of the last one, for instance

[luketeaford]

Stepped side needs a gate at sample input in order to do anything, but it has its own cycle output (just like on the Serge format SSG).