Newb Weekend! Please comment on my planned 6u!

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geremyf
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Newb Weekend! Please comment on my planned 6u!

Post by geremyf » Sun May 10, 2015 11:45 pm

First a pic:
DELETED. Please see post w/ 3 pics farther down...

The Plan
I'm going to buy the top row all together (except the e620 which is not yet available) very soon. I'll add the bottom row very slowly staring from the right. I don't have or want any other hardware except an iPad and qunexus. I'm definitely sticking with 6u forever. If I go larger than that I will just turn into a module collector. I'm an EE and am easily fascinated. I want to create a personalized portable instrument that I can play anywhere. I'm a single father and don't have a lot of free time. Plan to use the Pittsburgh Modular Move 208 case.
Module Justification
I'm completely sold on the Metropolis from the Mylarmelodies video. I like acid and Detroit style tech I quite a bit. Most of the music I'm targeting is tonal/rythmic. I like evolving atmospheric pads as well though!
I'm not completely sold on Atlantis. I like how it sounds, I wish it had an additional external input in the mixer section and dual VCAs, but it is slick and my newbular brain will hopefully cull satisfying sonics soonish.
I want the e620 (or endorphin.es shuttle) for the direct iPad connection.
I have read a lot about outputs. For the space the WMD pro output seems pretty high on the list.
I'm not exactly sure what the Tidal Wave does but it sounds cool and it's spec sheet seems to me to be pretty complementary to the Atlantis. Waveshaper, LFOs, additional envelopes, filter, mixer and vca. Also, I have lurked for a very long time, I dig the Snazzy FX philosophy. I'm interested in basically all of their products. If I find a way to place a wow&flutter in the system I will!
Erbe Verb: I like reverb :mrgreen: and an envelope follower seems pretty useful. Seems like a really great complement to almost anything. There might be other reverbs that sound as nice and use less HP. According to the marketing it can almost act as another voice and that seems like a good deal in such a small system.
Verbos stuffage: I like every module from Verbos and my backup plan is to fill the whole 6u with Verbos + metropolis. I think that system would be a bit more limited (just slightly though!) and I'm also afraid I might have trouble getting off the ground creation-wise.

Thanks! Am I missing anything? Too much redundancy? Just plain silliness due to lack of experience? Oh, the most important question: anyone know how to replace the Atlantis slider caps? :hihi:
Last edited by geremyf on Wed May 27, 2015 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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geremyf
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Post by geremyf » Mon May 11, 2015 8:53 am

Hi. So I posted this late last night. In reviewing, I see I have plenty of sources, filters, envelopes VCAs, etc. I'm not sure I have enough modulation to make things very interesting though. The Atlantis has built-in LFO capabilities as does the Tidal Wave, but I don't know if those will be sufficient.

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hadj
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Post by hadj » Mon May 11, 2015 9:39 am

Maths or Function could be nice?

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geremyf
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Post by geremyf » Mon May 11, 2015 10:04 am

I'm not sure that Maths or Function would provide that much in the way of additional capabilities. I could think about replacing the Erbe Verb with something like the Quad Ping LFO from 4ms, but I'm just shooting in the dark. I might need something additional to drive that, like the SCM or RCD. As a temporary measure I could put in a Distnig since the E620 is not yet available.

Since (like I said) I like Snazzy FX so much, I could replace the erbe-verb with a combo of the dreamboat for modulation and the wow&flutter for a cool effect...slightly more expensive though.

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Post by Ed » Mon May 11, 2015 10:31 am

You definitely need some kind of audio/cv mixer and/or attenuator. Some cv inputs don't have built in attenuators (for example on the Erbe-Verb), so you will need that if you want to have some kind of control over the depth of your modulation.
Also: VCAs. If you want to control the amount of a voltage going into a CV input by other voltage, you will need a VCA.
You will quickly notice there is a need for less fancy but functional modules.

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geremyf
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Post by geremyf » Mon May 11, 2015 10:36 am

Yes! That is why I have the to be released Verbos Scan & Pan, though I'm not sure it has VCAs...it seems like it might. The Tidal Wave has a built in mixer as does the Atlantis and both have one VCA, which is why I added the Verbos ATC. You're saying I need more of both?

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Ed
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Post by Ed » Mon May 11, 2015 10:56 am

Well, I was thinking about VCAs and Mixers for use with CV.

VCA use example: If i want an envelope to affect the filter cutoff more the harder I press a key, I have to patch the envelope through a VCA and my note velocity CV into the CV input of that VCA. That way, the velocity CV controls the effect of the envelope over the filter cutoff. I don't see a way to this with the stuff you have in your rack right now.

Mixer use example: Say you want the filter cutoff of the Atlantis with an envelope and the output of the HO. You have to put them though a mixer first, before hitting the cutoff CV input of the Atlantis. Polarizing mixers can also get a lot out of otherwise dull modulation sources. Something like a Doepfer A-138c + 2 A-147 can be fun for years.

The point is: Utilities are fun, and you should have some straightforward ones in every rack.

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Post by geremyf » Mon May 11, 2015 11:14 am

That all makes complete sense to me. Anything you would recommend@ Erbe Verb is the first module to go in my eyes (though I'll miss it). So around 20hp max. Will something like the Addac 802 suffice? And if I add the that, is there a reason to keep the Verbos Scan & Pan?

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Post by geremyf » Wed May 27, 2015 3:06 pm

Ok so I have done some more thinking. I'm still up in the air. After taking to heart the responses here, I have 3 candidate systems. First two would go in a monorocket mx104 case. I know I'll want more modules. I also don't want to carry a power brick! Music is typically normal Acid/Techno type doodling. I know one of the strengths of eurorack is being able to mix stuff up and take the best from many different manufacturers, but as a newb I'm feeling like sticking (as much as possible) to a limitied set of 'ideologies' will help me get off the ground more quickly.

Number 1 (with or without phonogene):
Image

Simple. Atlantis. Metropolis. Terminal. A Links to round things out. The Terminal really adds to the Atl/Met combo, providing dual A/R env or multi-shape LFOs (with 1v/Oct key input!), plus dual LPGs, digital reverb and dedicated headphone out. This is definitely my top candidate, and the lease expensive as well. Would like to add a phonogene (totally sold on that module!) but might not be able to afford it in round 1. Least expensive option. Safest bet soundwise, but lacks the visceral appeal of other system choices.

Number 2:
Image

All Verbos all the time...well plus metropolis. I'm in love with the idea of the HO and the multi-envelope shapes. Won't be able to afford a VCA-mixer to start off, and there are a lot of sound sources. Will eventually add Verbos Scan&Pan and/or ADDAC 802. To limited to start off utility wise? Most expensive to boot!

Number 3:
Image

Safe bet. Make noise system 0, with the additional cost of a 6U (or 7U) case, + metropolis. It's appealing to stay within the make noise philosophy but I'm not sure it will sound as nice, plus (and I know this won't be a popular opinion) it seems that while the sound is quite unique the cost per function is typically higher with MN modules overall. Costwise-it's in between the 1st and 2nd options, but this is spec'd with the 7U make noise/monorocket case, while the others include the 12U monorocket with integrated transformers.

Thanks for reading!

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Post by deusletum » Wed May 27, 2015 3:36 pm

I like number 3, I would add a mult, peaks, and disting. But a wonderful system I think.

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Post by geremyf » Wed May 27, 2015 5:29 pm

Oh. I realize that there is a mistake in the make noise system because I won't be able to afford the phonogene in the initial purchase. So the third pic should not include the phonogene. Also remember that system only has 6u instead of a 12u case like the first two systems.

I understand folks love of Maths. However for a small portable system Terminal is basically Maths + Optomix. It doesn't have the logic functions, but has additional (seemingly more useful) functions instead.

I'm trying to stick as close to $3K as possible.

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Post by geremyf » Thu May 28, 2015 9:12 am

Looking for more insight! I cannot seem to make a decision...I have misgivings about each system!
1. Does Atlantis make things too simple? Is it truly wiggleable? I think I might be more interested long term in a complex oscillator with wavefolding
2. Lots of sound sources, some available modulation (though not much) and no mixers. Ok to start? Too expensive for what it is?
3. Will I be able to coax normal tonal music out of it? Most Make Noise videos strike me as odd, not sold on the sound. I guess if I use Maths in ADSR mode and the wobblebug as modulation source it should be able to make noises similar to the Atlantis. Cost is also high for 6U...
Last edited by geremyf on Thu May 28, 2015 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by deusletum » Thu May 28, 2015 9:50 am

To give some perspective, my current system is [img]https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/m ... 180484.jpg[/img]

But if I had to do it over again I would have started with something like this [img]https://cdn.modulargrid.net/img/racks/m ... 180484.jpg[/img]

I know neither are really in your price range but I believe the second starter system as I call it has more range than my current system.[/img]

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Post by deusletum » Thu May 28, 2015 9:55 am

Well that did not post correctly, very odd.

Current [url]https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/180484[/url]

Starter [url]https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/180484[/url]

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Post by geremyf » Thu May 28, 2015 10:11 am

Thanks for the response I'm a bit confused because your current and starter URLs link to the same images.

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Post by modernage » Thu May 28, 2015 10:31 am

geremyf wrote:Thanks for the response I'm a bit confused because your current and starter URLs link to the same images.
Maybe what he is saying is if he were to do it all again he wouldn't change a thing. :hihi: :razz:

Thinking about the type of sounds you are wanting to make I think the Metropolis/Atlantis combo would be an excellent choice. The great thing about modular, is if you are finding yourself dreaming about more complex osc sounds you can always add those modules later (Dixie+uFold? to keep it in the Intellijel family). And perhaps down the road you've come to realize that, like deusletum, you would do things different if given another chance. But at least you made the leap, and you can always make changes according to your tastes/preferences. :zen:

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Post by deusletum » Thu May 28, 2015 10:34 am

Here is the correct link to what I would have done if I could start all over again [url]https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/181507[/url]

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Post by euromorcego » Thu May 28, 2015 11:02 am

geremyf wrote:Looking for more insight! I cannot seem to make a decision...I have misgivings about each system!
then wait with a decision, get a good case and a few modules (and maybe a semi-modular for starters) and see how it works out.

"1. Does Atlantis make things too simple?" --> Atlantis is a good starter module, but if you are more into complex osc with wavefolding, then go for it. Atlantis is really something else entirely.

"3. Will I be able to coax normal tonal music out of it?" --> you need a good midi-CV interface (or expert sleepers or similar), then all these systems can provide "normal" tonal music (whatever that is).

Again: Get a good case, and just a few modules that really interest you. Also have a look at the Sputnik range, very reasonably priced. Also mutable instruments has some good modules (streams as a dual LPG, if you are not a purist, and it offers a lot more flexibility). The good thing about modular is that even "just" a DPO and Maths (and many other combinations) can already give a lot things to explore. And once you use them it is MUCH easier to know what you are looking for (and that you need more modulation and utilities, and a bigger case).

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Re: Newb Weekend! Please comment on my planned 6u!

Post by mskala » Thu May 28, 2015 11:05 am

geremyf wrote:I'm definitely sticking with 6u forever.
:grin:
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Re: Newb Weekend! Please comment on my planned 6u!

Post by geremyf » Thu May 28, 2015 11:20 am

mskala wrote:
geremyf wrote:I'm definitely sticking with 6u forever.
:grin:
Haha well I justify it like the 12U really is a 6U with a twin! My indecisiveness got the better of me. Especially when you take a look at things. 6U case is $600-700, 12U is $950. They are also the exact same size. It just makes sense to get the 12U.
deusletum wrote:Here is the correct link to what I would have done if I could start all over again https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/181507
Ok. Less sound sources & lots more utilities. I hear you! That really steers me away from the Verbos in system #2. At least to start...I guess it doesn't matter really. As long as I have a metropolis and (eventually) a phonogene, I'll probably be happy.

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Post by deusletum » Thu May 28, 2015 11:20 am

Could not agree with euromorcego more! May have done things differently in the beginning but I do love what I have. It is amazing what fun you can have with even a small system. Maths + DPO is just too much fun!

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Post by deusletum » Thu May 28, 2015 11:24 am

As for the case thing. I went the very cheap way of two TipTop Audio happy ending kits and a very cheap 12U 19" rack from Amazon. I think it cost me $450 all day. It is not portable so that may be a breaker for you.

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Post by geremyf » Thu May 28, 2015 6:44 pm

Ok. This is it. Final 2 starter configs...please let me know your thoughts. Most folks will likely dismiss the tidal wave compared to the make noise alternative because it's so new and different, but it has a really nice feature set that complements the Atlantis . I believe both configs are somewhat equivalent. Same case and roughly the same price.

Snazzy atl-met
Image

Make Noise alternative.
Image

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Post by geremyf » Thu May 28, 2015 8:46 pm

Oh my gosh! Nobody get's the Atlantis + Tidal Wave pun? I just realized :hyper:

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Post by deusletum » Fri May 29, 2015 9:14 am

I would go with make noise just because I know those modules. That being said they both look great.

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