Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Ver.2 General build thread

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Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Ver.2 General build thread

Post by LED-man » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:20 am

here is the new Build thread rev.2

backup here: http://electro-music.com/forum/viewtopi ... 150#407150 and on my website

General TTSH postings like Availability and more here:
viewtopic.php?t=82997

TTSH Ver.2 (7.1 on pcb)
Released: 5.January 2015

Release Info:
Changes between first Version and rev.2:
• Powersection, two 1 inch voltage converter, embedded powerregulator like nordcores v1 addon pcb, 3x SMD inductors/chokes and more
• Amplifier : new design without cooling, other Amplifier Transistors and some other parts in this section
• LED Driver redesign
• multiples on pcb
• speaker holes
• switches: you get with the pcb kit few small pcbs with - this are used like a washer for the switches, in result switch mounting is easier as in TTSH rev.1 (pics on my website)
• some minor fixes
______________________________________

Schematic v2 (7.1)
http://thehumancomparator.net/wordpress ... matics.pdf
________________________________________________

Jon /Zthees Buidling guide (26.Jan.2015 uncomplete)
http://build.thehumancomparator.net/
my own Building guide for Users with good experiences in DIY
https://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH ... ling+Guide
_________________________________________________________

Mainboard BOM

http://thehumancomparator.net/wordpress ... hv2BOM.pdf

dont worry if you miss 2x 100K resisitors and 1x 1M , TL071 - thats only needed when you complete the TL071 section on frontpanel pcb side
1x 10K resistor left

add 4x 4n7 c0g instead of 4x 4n7 from BOM - (wrong partnumber)
(correct nr. partnumber 810-FK28C0G1H472J )

add 2x 12k resistor instead of one
add 32x 1uF electrolyte cap instead of 31


VCO Sub pcbs BOM

http://thehumancomparator.net/wordpress ... 7v2BOM.pdf

please add: 6x 100nF SMT c0g caps in size 805
mouser part 100nF 77-VJ0805Y104JXXPBC instead of the 6x normal caps.
10nF works fine too (its only a decoupling cap)

3x Timing cap 680pF needs a polypropylene, polystyrene or silva mica (7.5mm footprint)
mouser: 80-PHE450HK3680JR05


notice: the usage of 1k87 3300ppm instead of 3500ppm works fine too.

you can try the usage instead of SMT inductors/chokes this:
http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTIO ... HBCC%20100
(add enough soldercore to the pcb pads, bent the leads and solder this to the pads)

DIFF from Version 1to version2 (first TTSH from early2014 to second from early 2015)
http://thehumancomparator.net/wordpress ... rences.pdf

rare partkit: http://www.thonk.co.uk/?s=ttsh&submit.x ... pe=product
full partkits, cases: http://www.synthcube.com/cart

matched pairs and some other parts from my groupbuy left, ask me.
____________________________________________________________
Studio/Roadcase Cases opt. Tolex https://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Case
synthcube.com plans to offer cases too
_____________________________________________________________

known Issues and more

1.
You dont need TTSHv1. Bugfixes in rev.2 to get a working TTSH
all known Issues are fixed in rev.2, except the Noise gain/distorted - for my usage its the default good https://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH ... ssues-3fix


2.
Measurement of DC Regulator output:
use for measurement the TP 15V to ground and TP -15V to ground (not TP1 or TP3 )
THATS very important to measure -15/+15V
otherwise you risk expensive damages or blown caps. (safe your eyes)

3.
if you plan to add the VCO Sync option, dont cut the legs from all VCO subboards too short (see VCO sync option here)
please pm me, if you want to add/correct here some Infos

4.
mount the mhe172/mj1182 with letters in position to pcb inside not to the outside. (pics later)


5. picture of matched pairs here:
Image
__________________________________________________________
Modifications (no bugfixes)

AR Envelope:
https://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Mod+AR+Envelope

VCO Sync:
https://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Mod+Sync+Option

Reverb Op-amp:
https://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH ... Driver+Mod

Gatebooster:
https://www.dsl-man.de/display/DSO/TTSH+Gatebooster
Last edited by LED-man on Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:00 pm, edited 17 times in total.

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Altitude909
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Post by Altitude909 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:18 am

When you say "all known Issues are fixed in rev.2, except the noise gain " are you referring to the reverb tank drive circuit?

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Post by ultravox » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:36 am

The 6x 100nF SMD capacitors for the 4027-1 boards aren't in the BOM and Mouser cart. The BOM shows 6x 100nF thru-hole caps which won't work. Need Mouser part 77-VJ0805Y103JXXPBC (from TTSH Ver1).

The 680pF capacitors for the 4027-1 boards were changed from polypropylene (PP) to ceramic (MLCC), but the silkscreen and lead spacing is still set up for the larger PP caps.

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Post by LED-man » Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:47 am

thanks - i have added both infos to the first posting.

EDIT:

hopeful the first post has enough infos to build without trouble the new TTSH Version.
Last edited by LED-man on Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Would waiting be a mistake?

Post by LED-man » Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:22 am

galanter wrote:I know my way around a soldering iron and building a TTSH would be very satisfying. But I'm not hanging on every bit of news with baited breath.

So my naive and uninformed question…

If I wait until, say, May, will everything be in place and I can simply order what I need, no muss, no fuss?

Or is this a "supplies are limited" kind of thing where if you don't compete with everyone else by checking for availability every 15 minutes, you will lose out and the TTSH will go back into unavailability?

thanks,

Phil

(I learned analog synthesis back in 1972 on an ARP 2600 while in college. I have a sort of emotional attachment to them, but there's no way I'm going to pay the prices old ones are fetching.)

Hi Phil,

i´m sorry to hear every day from users some frustrations about the avaibility of Jons/zthees TTSH rev.2

please read here the last posts:
viewtopic.php?t=82997
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Re: Would waiting be a mistake?

Post by LED-man » Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:08 am

galanter wrote:
Thanks, but actually I've already read that and it doesn't really address my question. I'll ask in a different way…

Is this a limited run of a fixed number of boards? i.e. is it likely that if I wait "too long" I'll miss out and the TTSH will go back into unavailability?

(I don't mind waiting…unless I'm risking not getting one…)
sorry but this is the BUILD THREAD, please ask in other thread and you get a answer. otherwise we have in few weeks, again 200pages and nobody find important infos about TTSH building
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Post by LED-man » Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:41 am

i received many Emails with Measurement Issues from the Powersection:

the external 12V/24V DC input goes thru the 320uH choke in 2x DC_DC adapter (murata or traco etc.)
every output are filtered by 100uH choke. the output is here around -15V +15V thats TP1 (-15V) and TP3 (+15V)
every rail goes thru a DC regulator LM2991 (-15V)/ TL1963 (15V
we need this outputs - this voltages can be trimmed.

Measurement of DC Regulator output:
make sure your jumper between the both black murata adapter are placed. (grounding)
Use for measurement the TP 15V to ground and TP -15V to ground


the ground is on left external input, you can measure there all output voltages too.
dont measure TP1 or TP3 for the output voltage, TP1/3 are the output from the murata adapter - if you measure this to TP -15 you have zero or 30Volt ;)

if you dont have a voltage, check the power from murata DC-DC at TP1/3, check the voltage at the 100uH chokes.

THATS very important to measure -15/+15V
otherwise you risk expensive damages or blown caps by further building. (safe your eyes)
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Post by Nordcore » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:04 pm

Altitude909 wrote:When you say "all known Issues are fixed in rev.2, except the noise gain " are you referring to the reverb tank drive circuit?
The reverb tank has no issue (it works as bad as original), that was a MOD to make it less noisy.

What was plain wrong was the selection of the noise transistor.
The noise circuit is a special use of a transistor, which does not work with todays 2N5172. If you want to build it original, you *must* get an old transistor, not a freshly manufactured.

Or you take a BC337, which seems to be one of todays transistors working as intended ...

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Post by Altitude909 » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:09 pm

Nordcore wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:When you say "all known Issues are fixed in rev.2, except the noise gain " are you referring to the reverb tank drive circuit?
The reverb tank has no issue (it works as bad as original), that was a MOD to make it less noisy.

What was plain wrong was the selection of the noise transistor.
The noise circuit is a special use of a transistor, which does not work with todays 2N5172. If you want to build it original, you *must* get an old transistor, not a freshly manufactured.

Or you take a BC337, which seems to be one of todays transistors working as intended ...
Gotcha, broken by design :) The BC337 did work well in the Rev 1

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Post by sduck » Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:38 pm

Thanks for restarting this thread!

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Post by maurice » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:02 pm

So here is the thing :
I ripped off one of the shiny parts of the pcb that was attached to the legs of the 320uF choke while removing it (on top of the muratas).

Is that easy to fix, may be with a jumper ?

Anyway I'd like to start building, so in the meantime I will use a 15V external input. Any recommendation on the adapter I should buy ?


Image

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Post by LED-man » Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:58 pm

maurice wrote:So here is the thing :
I ripped off one of the shiny parts of the pcb that was attached to the legs of the 320uF choke while removing it (on top of the muratas).

Is that easy to fix, may be with a jumper ?

Anyway I'd like to start building, so in the meantime I will use a 15V external input. Any recommendation on the adapter I should buy ?
the inner pins are unused (see schematics) only the outside pins are in use.

Image

EDIT: see here too:
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/445/744290321-321534.pdf
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Post by maurice » Mon Jan 26, 2015 3:35 pm

Ok, I just soldered it back.

Now I have 12V on top right corners of the muratas, but still 0V on the +/-15V holes. I suspect the 100uF SMD solderings, I've got 0V everywhere around.

EDIT : I did it again, I skinned the pcb a little
Is it still possible ?
How can I skip this smd challenge and use a 15V external adapter[/img] ?

Image

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&/&% chokes!

Post by Mesmerised » Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:43 pm

I somehow failed at the 100uH chokes too. One of them did not let current pass and while re-/unsoldering it I cracked the other one. :doh:

At the moment my TTSH runs without them (bridged the pads) - I plan on replacing them with these:
http://www.reichelt.de/index.html?ACTIO ... CC%20100µ

They seem to be fairly similar? Does anybody know if they'd work?

I have still to hunt down why my clock doesn't work but otherwise there were the first sounds to be heard here today! :hyper:

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Post by LED-man » Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:30 pm

maurice wrote:Ok, I just soldered it back.

Now I have 12V on top right corners of the muratas, but still 0V on the +/-15V holes. I suspect the 100uF SMD solderings, I've got 0V everywhere around.

EDIT : I did it again, I skinned the pcb a little
Is it still possible ?
How can I skip this smd challenge and use a 15V external adapter

Challenges are to win this.
Bridge the 100uH temporarly. Measure the voltages at left external input.
maybe you can buy new chokes and mount at first at the smd part a solder leg, then mount the choke like a ceramic cap, bend the legs of your choice.
maybe its a workaround.
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Post by maurice » Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:54 pm

LED-man wrote:

Challenges are to win this.
Bridge the 100uH temporarly. Measure the voltages at left external input.
maybe you can buy new chokes and mount at first at the smd part a solder leg, then mount the choke like a ceramic cap, bend the legs of your choice.
maybe its a workaround.
ok, challenge accepted. I need to go around the missing pad though.
I can't manage to localize this part on the schematics, may be I don't have the right pdf.

From what I can see on the pcb, the bottom choke is connected to top of the 4n7 and the left of the 22J63 ? Is that correct ?

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Post by Altitude909 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 6:38 am

everyone should be using additional flux when soldering that thing, what's in wire solder isnt going to cut it

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Post by LED-man » Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:25 am

maurice wrote:
LED-man wrote:

Challenges are to win this.
Bridge the 100uH temporarly. Measure the voltages at left external input.
maybe you can buy new chokes and mount at first at the smd part a solder leg, then mount the choke like a ceramic cap, bend the legs of your choice.
maybe its a workaround.
ok, challenge accepted. I need to go around the missing pad though.
I can't manage to localize this part on the schematics, may be I don't have the right pdf.

From what I can see on the pcb, the bottom choke is connected to top of the 4n7 and the left of the 22J63 ? Is that correct ?
schematics link on first posting (added few minth ago)
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Post by Altitude909 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:21 am

My PSU prototype will be ready this week and I was thinking about how best to integrate it into the current design with a front panel switch. I'd like to keep it but they dont make those in a DPDT. Is it reasonable or sane to simply wire the ground through switch instead of the +/- leads?

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Post by LED-man » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:28 am

Altitude909 wrote:My PSU prototype will be ready this week and I was thinking about how best to integrate it into the current design with a front panel switch. I'd like to keep it but they dont make those in a DPDT. Is it reasonable or sane to simply wire the ground through switch instead of the +/- leads?
if you switch only the ground from the output, the 110V/230V powersupply is always on, in this combination you need a input power switch too.
a electronic switch or relais help
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Post by maurice » Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:48 am

LED-man wrote: schematics link on first posting (added few minth ago)
Thanks, I put the bridge and successfully trimmed to +/-15V :sb:

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Post by Altitude909 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:14 am

LED-man wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:My PSU prototype will be ready this week and I was thinking about how best to integrate it into the current design with a front panel switch. I'd like to keep it but they dont make those in a DPDT. Is it reasonable or sane to simply wire the ground through switch instead of the +/- leads?
if you switch only the ground from the output, the 110V/230V powersupply is always on, in this combination you need a input power switch too.
a electronic switch or relais help
That I have on the power entry module (fuse/IEC/switch deal). So beyond that, switching the ground is OK?

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Post by LED-man » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:24 am

Altitude909 wrote:
LED-man wrote:
Altitude909 wrote:My PSU prototype will be ready this week and I was thinking about how best to integrate it into the current design with a front panel switch. I'd like to keep it but they dont make those in a DPDT. Is it reasonable or sane to simply wire the ground through switch instead of the +/- leads?
if you switch only the ground from the output, the 110V/230V powersupply is always on, in this combination you need a input power switch too.
a electronic switch or relais help
That I have on the power entry module (fuse/IEC/switch deal). So beyond that, switching the ground is OK?
technical yes, for german legal/terms/standards not.
but depends of the usage for private use only or commercial/resale.
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Post by Altitude909 » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:49 am

LED-man wrote:
technical yes, for german legal/terms/standards not.
but depends of the usage for private use only or commercial/resale.
Yeah, I keep getting that bad feeling about that approach. Relay for the DC is probably a better approach..

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Post by LED-man » Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:53 am

Altitude909 wrote:
LED-man wrote:
technical yes, for german legal/terms/standards not.
but depends of the usage for private use only or commercial/resale.
Yeah, I keep getting that bad feeling about that approach. Relay for the DC is probably a better approach..
you can remove the frontpanel switch and add a dummy cover,
power on/off by side/reapanel switch from IEC switch.
Last edited by LED-man on Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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