New unofficial Frames firmware (sequencer mode improvement)

Cwejman, Doepfer, Erica, MakeNoise, Mutable instruments, TipTop Audio, Analogue Solutions, and much more! The world’s most popular format.
Be sure to look into MANUFACTURER SUB-FORA as well..

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

New unofficial Frames firmware (sequencer mode improvement)

Post by pwranml » Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:55 am

**EDIT** Changing the title of the thread rather than making a new one since there are some valuable posts here.

THANK YOU MQTTHIQS FOR MAKING THIS

With this firmware the knobs edit the current frame in sequencer mode.

Useful as a matrix sequencer with a switch, chord sequencer for braids, or a much easier way of using the sequencer mode when mixing audio / cv / whatever.

NOTES: If you plan on using it as a sequencer you probably will want to switch the jumper on the back to change the 10v to 5v.

In this mode you can step through the frames as you feed the FRAME input with a clock (with the modulation knob turned to the right). If you want to edit a frame you can scan through it with the clock and then put the modulation knob back to 12o'clock when it reaches the desired frame.

Firmware and more details on the matrix sequencer patch below. :party:
mqtthiqs wrote:Download the new firmware here:

https://github.com/mqtthiqs/mutable/rel ... ep-mod.wav

Basically, a sub-mode is added to the sequencer mode that allows the four controls to edit the current step. You enter it by long-pressing DEL while in sequencer mode; the frame LED will blink, and you can directly tweak the controls and hear the result. In this sub-mode, the frame knob has no effect. You exit it with by pressing DEL once.

Is this what you wanted? Any feedback will be much appreciated!

The only downside to this is that now we can't edit the channels' response curves while in sequencer mode; you can still edit them if you go out of sequencer mode. Seems pretty innocuous to me...

PS: For those interested to see the code, here is my commit:

https://github.com/mqtthiqs/mutable/com ... 6264398f95


old post:
I've been using frames paired with an a-151 to act as a 4x4 (16 step) matrix sequencer recently. eg:

This is done by sending the 4 outs from frames into the switch and putting frames in "sequencer mode" with the +10v on. Sending the output of the switch into a quantizer the switch trigger becomes (in rene terms) the x input. I then make 4 different frames and "frame" input becomes the y input.

I'm planning a performance case where this will be my main sequencer: http://cdn.modulargrid.de/img/racks/mod ... 143041.jpg (rough draft / not an invitation for you to tell me i need more vca's :cloud: )

It seems to me like one of the best options regarding small hp footprint, navigable interface, and functionality. It can obviously turn into a 4x8 matrix (or 4x64 though 256 steps is kinda ridiculous). Also it gets pretty great when sending lfos, egs, random voltages or whatever into one or two of the frame channels then attenuating them differently per step. Especially when using the disting quantizer where the B output becomes a sort of combined x+y gate for eg & vca.

ANYWAY the only thing I'm not totally hype on yet is the fact that it gets pretty tricky to change the sequence once you're in sequencer mode. When I hear one note that I'd like to be different, I can see exactly where it is but it's hard to get to it to change it. I usually exit out of sequencer mode and change it real quick but I often fuck up somehow or another and change a different note in the process.

I'd love it if whatever frame it was currently at in the sequence correlated to the knobs (obviously only changing when touched though). That way I could just turn the modulation knob down so that it stops changing and then fine tune those four notes.

Since Oliver seems like he has the most insane work ethic and openness to ideas I figure it would be worth posting this. I'd hit him up directly but I'd assume this thread could maybe inspire some other ideas on the matter as well?
Last edited by pwranml on Sun Mar 22, 2015 1:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
bennelong.bicyclist
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1025
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:54 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Post by bennelong.bicyclist » Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:16 pm

Could you re-post this on the Mutable Instruments forum in the "Firmware hacking" category and it can be discussed there? That's a better venue for such discussions, mainly because Muffwiggler is unusably slow at the moment, but also because you'll get a wider range of knowledgeable input there.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:20 pm

bennelong.bicyclist Cool. I just signed up. I only see a firmware / hacking category under the Shruthi forum. Is that where you mean?

User avatar
wavefold
sonic lad
Posts: 924
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 5:51 am
Location: Italy
Contact:

Post by wavefold » Tue Jan 13, 2015 5:46 pm

Epic patch! Gonna try out as soon as I get one :yay:

User avatar
blund
Common Wiggler
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Nov 11, 2013 4:06 am
Location: Stockholm, Sweden

Post by blund » Wed Jan 14, 2015 3:02 am

Cool!

Talking about sequencing I'm mounting my new Yarns today. Will use it in seq mode and patch all 4 seq outputs to my WMD SSM and switch between them in fun ways while also trigging percussion from then expander trig puts. Before I got SSM I had thoughts about Frames and using it for seq as well. Thanks for sharing this!

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:03 am

blund wrote: Before I got SSM I had thoughts about Frames and using it for seq as well. Thanks for sharing this!
You should still do it. It's the best. Frames is so versatile. As much as it requires planning and very different abstract thought processes sometimes (compared to more traditional modules at least) there is so much it can do. The possibilities with the SSM would be insane. I can't wait to see what else I can do with the setup once I get an a-152.

artisokka
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:02 am
Location: Finland

Post by artisokka » Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:07 am

Yep, an epic patch indeed!

I Spent some quality time with this patch another day.
I found out that
- you get more controllable results if you use a separate cv instead of the built in +10V offset
- pamela in euclidean mode is (once again) the shit here!
- you can get even more complex results by feeding the frames with another sequence (i used pressure points, as seen on my video 1:50-> )

So, here we go:

[video][/video]



Can't emped video, here's the link:
dequalsrxt wrote:fat is warmer than digital is analog, except when it's more west than east, in which case cold is the hotness, but not very musical.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:32 pm

Oh shit that's great. I didn't even think about the all input. I've just been throwing weird stuff into each channel.

Putting another sequence into the ALL is insane. I've just been scaling the 10v after the fact (running the 151 out into a maths channel).

It would be so cool if the frame knob (which i don't understand what it even does in sequencer mode though maybe nothing at the moment) could scale the 10v at some sort of stepped interval so that you could change the whole sequence and then come back to it without much fine tuning.

I just love how malleable of a sequencer it is. For a small setup you only need a couple modules to interact with it and unlock a billion possibilities (not to mention that you can still switch it back to a voltage controlled mixer which I'm also obsessed with eg: )

artisokka
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:02 am
Location: Finland

Post by artisokka » Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:37 am

pwranml wrote:It would be so cool if the frame knob (which i don't understand what it even does in sequencer mode though maybe nothing at the moment) could scale the 10v at some sort of stepped interval so that you could change the whole sequence and then come back to it without much fine tuning.
That would be awesome! :tu:
dequalsrxt wrote:fat is warmer than digital is analog, except when it's more west than east, in which case cold is the hotness, but not very musical.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:24 pm

artisokka Did you have any luck with accurately changing the sequence one you set it up? I'm wondering if there's any better way around it that I just haven't thought of.

The more I mess with this I keep coming up with so many different ways to patch it. I'm dead set on having this be my sequencer for this tiny setup I'm working on, I just wish that one aspect of it made a little more sense.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:23 pm

No firmware yet but there is some discussion here: http://mutable-instruments.net/forum/di ... suggestion

User avatar
mqtthiqs
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:25 am
Location: Paris, France

Post by mqtthiqs » Sat Mar 21, 2015 1:53 am

EDIT: there are later and better versions of this alternate firmware. Read my posts below and make sure to get the latest version!

Hi pwranml! I just implemented the mod you proposed. Download the new firmware here:

https://github.com/mqtthiqs/mutable/rel ... ep-mod.wav

Basically, a sub-mode is added to the sequencer mode that allows the four controls to edit the current step. You enter it by long-pressing DEL while in sequencer mode; the frame LED will blink, and you can directly tweak the controls and hear the result. In this sub-mode, the frame knob has no effect. You exit it with by pressing DEL once.

Is this what you wanted? Any feedback will be much appreciated!

The only downside to this is that now we can't edit the channels' response curves while in sequencer mode; you can still edit them if you go out of sequencer mode. Seems pretty innocuous to me...

PS: For those interested to see the code, here is my commit:

https://github.com/mqtthiqs/mutable/com ... 6264398f95
Last edited by mqtthiqs on Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Sat Mar 21, 2015 7:57 am

mqtthiqs
Oh my god thanks!!

I was starting to think this would never happen. So pumped to try it out when I get back home.

artisokka
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:02 am
Location: Finland

Post by artisokka » Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:08 am

:hail: :hail: :hail: mqtthiqs
dequalsrxt wrote:fat is warmer than digital is analog, except when it's more west than east, in which case cold is the hotness, but not very musical.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Sat Mar 21, 2015 2:58 pm

Holy shit thank you mqtthiqs. This is 10x easier to use now. I won't miss the interpolation in this mode.

First patch:
Simple matrix sequence with channel 1 multed to created the weird bass drone in the background. I love how you can access 4 different channels of cv. I think frames is somewhat unique in this?

It really is a deep sequencer. Going to be so useful for the chord modes in braids.

I feel like there's probably a thousand ways to patch it that I haven't thought of yet.

User avatar
djthopa
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1945
Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2012 5:48 pm
Location: Somewhere between a nappy and a wire

Post by djthopa » Sat Mar 21, 2015 5:26 pm

Yikes! Got to try this! Thanks :party:

User avatar
mqtthiqs
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:25 am
Location: Paris, France

Post by mqtthiqs » Sat Mar 21, 2015 6:44 pm

pwranml wrote:Holy shit thank you mqtthiqs.
No problem, it's actually really nice to see that a couple of late night hours hacking can be useful! Thanks for the feedback guys!

Also, since I invested the time in understanding the code, it should be easier to do other mods, so don't hesitate to shoot your ideas. In particular:

- what should the big frame knob do in this alternate sequencer mod?
- we have another sub-mode available now, long-pressing ADD while in sequencer mode. Any ideas on how to use it? (should be related to sequencer mode though)

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:20 am

mqtthiqs wrote: - what should the big frame knob do in this alternate sequencer mod?
- we have another sub-mode available now, long-pressing ADD while in sequencer mode. Any ideas on how to use it? (should be related to sequencer mode though)
Yeah it feels weird having such a big colorful knob do nothing.

I was thinking it would be awesome if the frame knob could attenuate the internal offset. When I posted on the mutable forum oliver said something about that maybe not being possible though I'm not sure I remember correctly. BUT if there was some way it could attenuate in stepped voltages so you could easily turn to certain spots to recall the scale of the sequence that would be amazing.

I don't really know anything that goes into coding this or it's relation to the more analog/hardware aspects of the module so everything I say might be useless, but it's worth a shot I suppose.

Just off the top of my head it would be cool to have another mode that somehow eliminated the need for the sequential switch to be a "matrix sequencer" maybe? If the mix out just fed one of the 4 channels at a time and another jack could be changed into a sort of trigger to change channels? Say for instance the ALL input would be the "X" axis of the matrix and the FRAME input could be the "Y".

Or maybe just some sort of simple 16 (or any multiple of 4) step sequence set up the same way but just using the FRAME input so that it switches channels every time it gets a gate but only switches the frame every 4.

Idk to be honest I'm a little turn't right now, these all might be super dumb ideas. I wonder if BennelongBicyclist would have some good ideas as well especially now that it seems you worked through the hardest parts of the process.

P.S. If I had to think of one thing constructive criticism wise, I would have the delete knob stay lit (or unlit) while in this mode. It is good to have something visual so you know what mode you're in but that LED is a little bright and distracting when it flashes like that. Perhaps you could just have the lights do something initially when holding in the delete button so that you know it worked but then go back to normal after a second. Again thank you so much for making this. I have no real complaints.

User avatar
Funky40
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6322
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:08 pm
Location: on a big voyage

Post by Funky40 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:11 am

mqtthiqs, thank you for the effort !


i never used the old sequenzer mode, but should have donne........
now, i will have to, but, some questions occours :

how do i set the numbers of the steps in the new sequenzer mode ?
i think, for noobs like me, some more explanations would be very helpful bevore trying out.
For sale:

User avatar
mqtthiqs
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 785
Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:25 am
Location: Paris, France

Post by mqtthiqs » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:56 am

Funky40 wrote:how do i set the numbers of the steps in the new sequenzer mode ?
You can't! It's just supposed to be a new way of entering the sequencer value of the current step. If you want to add/delete steps, you'll have to exit this mode to go back to the usual sequencer mode and press ADD/DEL.

User avatar
Funky40
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 6322
Joined: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:08 pm
Location: on a big voyage

Post by Funky40 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:37 am

got it !
i thought it might be this.
Thanks !



for the big knob:
would it be possible to make the big knob the "enter key" to choose and set the number of desired steps ?
-programm a certain number of step-numbers,...2,4,6,8...etc. into the firmware.
giving the knob the functionality of beeing the "entrykey" to set the numbers of steps.
then in use: turn knob to choose the value, press a button to set.......only even values. 2,4,6,8.....
- same, press the other button for uneven values.......3,5,7,9


just an Idea on the quick.
hmm, ....inclouding LED blinking in a certain colour to give visual feedback and confirmation to what value one has set it.
possible ?
For sale:

User avatar
craigie77
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1346
Joined: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:17 pm
Location: larbert.

Post by craigie77 » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:23 am

excellent work bud

was a bug of mine this not being inthere



Ok so Big Knob suggestions

Clock Division mutiply
Gate lenght ( instead of trig out )
Interpolation ( amount for the 4 pots) Speed for the big knob

artisokka
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:02 am
Location: Finland

Post by artisokka » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:14 am

For the big knob: how about the ability to scroll trough the steps (basically the same as in the normal mode only without morphing between steps)?

This way you could really fine tune your sequences by choosing a step, tweaking the knobs, listening, maybe scrolling (backwards or forward) to another step, tweaking it etc. When you are done input a clock and :bananaguitar: :bananaguitar: :bananaguitar:
dequalsrxt wrote:fat is warmer than digital is analog, except when it's more west than east, in which case cold is the hotness, but not very musical.

pwranml
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 453
Joined: Sat Dec 07, 2013 6:02 pm
Location: Philadelphia

Post by pwranml » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:49 am

craigie77 wrote: Ok so Big Knob suggestions

Clock Division mutiply
Gate lenght ( instead of trig out )
Interpolation ( amount for the 4 pots) Speed for the big knob
Clock multiplication would be amazing. Gate length too. Anything where the knob can change what happens to the FR. STEP would be awesome since right now it's just a mult of whatever you feed the FRAME.
artisokka wrote:For the big knob: how about the ability to scroll trough the steps (basically the same as in the normal mode only without morphing between steps)?
You probably already know this (but for anyone else reading) that modulation attenuator is super helpful to scroll through frames with a clock and then select the frame by turning it back to 12oclock to make it stop switching frames. Also very useful in a musical sense.

This idea could be cool though especially when you have a ton of frames. Though it seems like it would get tricky.

artisokka
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 618
Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:02 am
Location: Finland

Post by artisokka » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:16 pm

pwranml wrote:
You probably already know this (but for anyone else reading) that modulation attenuator is super helpful to scroll through frames with a clock and then select the frame by turning it back to 12oclock to make it stop switching frames. Also very useful in a musical sense.
Well... I didn't know, tbh. Thanks for the tip!
dequalsrxt wrote:fat is warmer than digital is analog, except when it's more west than east, in which case cold is the hotness, but not very musical.

Post Reply

Return to “1U & 3U Eurorack Modules”