what is it about logic modules?

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echoplex
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what is it about logic modules?

Post by echoplex » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:18 pm

hiya guys,

sorry, but never understood what logic modules are made for or what they do?
For example the Intellijel OR, Plog, Spock, boolean logic processor and so on..

Can anyone explain, what they do, what I need them for, maybe with examples .. :despair:
And would I need any logic module? see my current rack in the signature.. I am doing techno music and sometimes wierdo ambieten stuff

sorry for that noob question

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Dcramer
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Post by Dcramer » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:27 pm

Check out this old vid of mine:

It's mostly created by a Plog and the whole patch runs on it's own, entirely self generating.
Logic lets you set conditions for something to happen or create ever changing gate patterns based on other events. :party:

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Post by Cat-A-Tonic » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:33 pm

A passive diode mixer will have a high output whenever A, OR B input singles are high.

A VCA will have a high output only when signals A, AND B are high.
Using a clock divider:
/3 AND /7 are only simultaneously high every 21st beat.
AND is multiplication.

XOR is like an OR combined with a NAND.
It allows the signals to pass Except when they happen simultaneously.
It's like when 2 people try to squeeze through a narrow door at the same time.

What I am looking forward to trying is Max/Min
"Peak/Trough"
circuits for combining waveforms.

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mritenburg
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Post by mritenburg » Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:50 pm

Logic modules are for decision making.

If event x is true, do something.

If event y is false, do something.

And so on.

It helps if you understand truth tables and can apply that understanding to gates.
Disappointment with any module is usually a failure of imagination.

robot voices and stuff


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CJ Miller
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Post by CJ Miller » Mon Sep 22, 2014 8:04 pm

Boolean logic is crucial for using discrete digital circuits to control when things happen. Best used with other trigger/gate modules, such as dividers, flip-flops, etc. Trigger and gate modules are all about pulses.

For example, If you have some regular pulses which trigger DrumA, and some other regular pulses which trigger DrumB, you can use an AND gate to fire DrumC whenever DrumA *and* DrumB are happening together. You could use an OR gate to further process your hat triggers together - it fires a pulse when it gets an OpenHat *or* a ClosedHat, so it should keep going no matter which hat you trigger.

If I would be correct in assuming that you are using that Pamela's Workout for all of your trigger and gate duties, then logic modules won't do much with just this. They are for coordinating multiple sources of pulses rather than a single programmable unit. But you could use them even with LFO and VCO outs.

You could have some rhythmical activity running only when a gate is high. Or cascade dividers to trigger a digital switch when certain conditions are met which activates yet another divider. This allows you to build up some fairly technical events and signal routing.

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Post by Liquidyzer » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:32 pm

Have a look at this.
[video][/video]

Although it's old and meant as a demo for Spock and Ustep, James gives you a run down of different logic types. He also demonstrates that with logic, and a couple basic sequencers you can achieve an interesting, self generating, constantly evolving patch :)

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akrylik
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Post by akrylik » Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:32 pm

Logic modules give you various ways to take two or more gate/trigger signals and generate a third related gate/trigger signal:

AND operation is muting: one gate passes or blocks another gate.
OR operation is combining: good for combining triggers/gates from various sources
XOR operation is differencing: voltage goes high whenever its two inputs are different

Taking your system into account, you could for example have one track from the ER-101 (or Wogglebug output) affecting another track through a boolean operation such as on the Intellijel Plog to mute, combine, or difference the incoming gate signals. If the tracks are different lengths this can result in some cool generative/phasing sequences.

You could also do the same with one track from the ER-101 and various gates from the PP all through the Plog to manually affect the ER-101 sequences on the fly. Think how fun it would be to only let sequences from the ER-101 or Wogglebug come through if you are pressing a pad on the PP (or the opposite).

Also, all logic modules will respond to continuous CV (LFOs for example) too, essentially interpreting a continuous CV as a high gate when it exceeds 2.5V (usually) and a low gate when it is below. So they are also comparators albeit with a fixed threshold.

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Post by JRock » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:08 am

I just put together a fistful of logic based patch vids :)
Here's 2 voices all run off the AniModule TikTok Clock Divider / Multiplier and rhythmically flavored in the XXX_OR
[video][/video]

In this quickie I take the clock source and /4 via FlipFlops before it's fed to the TikTok then the XXX_OR
[video][/video]

and benhex made an awesome concise and informative vid about the LogicOgic
[video][/video]

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Post by plogbidman » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:00 am

Read the manual of a Doepfer A-166. Very interesting !

http://www.doepfer.de/a100_man/a166_man.pdf

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Post by daverj » Tue Sep 23, 2014 1:40 am

Logic:

Image

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Post by ben_hex » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:06 am

"server temporarily unavailable"

Double post! :bang:
Last edited by ben_hex on Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ben_hex » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:07 am

Cheers JRock I was gonna pot up my video. Tried to explain logic in general as wel as demo the device. Hope it's useful. Also the Wikipedia pages are really helpful if you search OR gate, AND gate etc.
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Post by echoplex » Tue Sep 23, 2014 3:33 am

wow :eek: ...thank you guys for all your response.
that really help me alot understanding this a lot more :tu:

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Post by adam » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:01 am

you could also play with the nord g2 demo - it has some logic modules, and some more complex stuff

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flo
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Post by flo » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:09 am

It can also work truly continuously ("fuzzy sets"):

OR: returns the maximum amount of all inputs
AND: returns the minimum amount of all inputs

The A172 is a module working like this and it is very useful to create new shapes from LFOs, VCOs, envelopes and so on - additionally to being able to do the "classic" and "binary" logic stuff ("gates and triggers").

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Carl Hungus
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Post by Carl Hungus » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:55 am

This is an awesome thread about a topic I haven't had the wherewithal to dive into yet. Many thanks to the kind educators!

Probably a dumb question, but what is the relationship between OR functions and envelopes? I have seen OR functions on a PEG (maybe it's XOR?) and I think the Quadra expander, is this something different?
I thought perhaps the OR 2hp module from Intellijel could be used to make two envelopes into one more complex one based on those two, but my understanding is limited.

And if not an OR module for make two envelopes into one, is there a way to accomplish this and create a third more complex envelope for the price of two? (Sorry if this is a thread hijack!)

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Post by HIMA » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:03 am

you can download the PDF in my signature. there some nice examples from the pool of knowledge known locally as Dave, he of the animated gif from page one. Very clear explanations of these terms.
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Post by ETP » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:09 am

Carl Hungus wrote: I have seen OR functions on a PEG (maybe it's XOR?)
i don´t have PEG but i guess this:
if you mean the EOR EOF outs. they give you gate out when the END OF RISE or the END OF FALL is reached

if the EOF goes high you can trigger another envelope to make a more complex one.

with EOF you can change the EG in an LFO

yeah logic is super fun :sb:


edit: oooops i just saw there is an OR jack. don´t know :doh:

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Post by adam » Tue Sep 23, 2014 5:26 am

Carl Hungus wrote: And if not an OR module for make two envelopes into one, is there a way to accomplish this and create a third more complex envelope for the price of two? (Sorry if this is a thread hijack!)
you can use a mixer for this, a dc coupled one ideally, or if the envelope has eor eoc etc ouputs these output a trigger/gate ("logic high") when that condition is reached

you can use this trigger to start another envelope or some totally unrelated function elsewhere - or to make more complex envelopes

eg Image
The module contains 4 independent ADSR-type envelope generators. Each sub-module has available the controls Attack, Decay, Sustain and Release. The three-position Range switch allows to select the desired time range (low - high - medium). The adjustable envelope time ranges from several minutes to some milliseconds. On top of this each sub-module is equipped with three digital outputs (high/low): "End of Attack (EOA)", "End of Decay (EOD)" and "End of Release (EOR)". As soon as the criterion is valid (e.g. end of decay state) the corresponding digital outputs turns to "high". These outputs can be used e.g. to daisy-chain several ADSR sub-modules. For this the digital output in question (EOA, EOD or EOR) has to be connected to the Gate input of the following ADSR. Even automatically running envelopes (pseudo LFOs) or so-called "quadrature envelopes" with cyclical modulations of several ring-shaped, daisy-chained ADSRs are possible. To obtain a pseudo LFO simply the EOD or EOR output has to be connected to the Gate input of the same ADSR.

In addition to the obligatory Gate (G) input for envelope generators each sub-module has available a Retrigger (Rt) input. The retrigger turns the direction to "upward" if the envelope has already reached the decay state while the retrigger pulse occurs. If the envelope is still in the attack phase the retrigger input has no meaning. This a different behaviour from A-140 and A-141 !
The Gate inputs of the units 2, 3 and 4 are normalled to the Gate input of unit 1, i.e. Gate input 1 is connected to the switching contacts of the Gate input sockets 2, 3 and 4. Thus one Gate signal applied to Gate input 1 can be used to trigger all four sub-modules simultaneously.
The envelope outputs are displayed with LEDs.
The maximal envelope voltage (Attack/Decay reversal point) is about +8V.

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flo
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Post by flo » Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:06 am

OR on PEG, Maths etc. is exactly what I wrote above: the "continuous" version of OR, which just returns the MAXIMUM of all inputs.

They are not EOC / EOR outputs, but the MAX of all inputs (envelopes on PEG, function generators and attenuators on Maths).

(Note that the "max formula" works for "binary" signals (i.e., gates) as well.)

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Carl Hungus
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Post by Carl Hungus » Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:04 am

Thanks again guys. :)

And, holy crap, I didn't even know there was a Muffs patch book! :doh:

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Post by daverj » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:19 pm

The logic functions AND and OR are often written in all caps to make it clear the word is being used to describe the logic function. But those two functions do in fact follow their normal English meanings:

These can involve multiple inputs, but in the simplest form there are two inputs which we'll call "in1" and "in2", and call the output "out".

AND
if in1 is high and in2 is high then out is high

OR
if in1 is high or in2 is high then out is high

=====

The same is true for more than two inputs:

AND
if in1 is high and in2 is high and in3 is high and in4 is high then out is high

OR
if in1 is high or in2 is high or in3 is high or in4 is high then out is high

=========

Another way to look at it, which might make it clearer of when they are useful is:

AND
if all inputs are high, the output is high
(if any input is low, the output stays low)

OR
if any of the inputs are high, the output is high
(all inputs must be low to make the output low)

===================

Yet another way to look at it:

AND
sort of a digital VCA
-- when one input is low the other can't go through but when that first one is high the second can get through

OR
sort of a digital mixer
-- positive pulses from any of the inputs get to the output
-- just like a mixer that is overloaded and clipping, if multiple inputs are on at the same time you might not be able to distinguish between them (the output doesn't go low again until they are all gone)

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Post by maudibe » Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:38 pm

+All the above

But just get the plot: feed logic some LFO's and chuck a gate at it for good measure. You will instantly create a groove of sorts :)

Logic is a good way of extracting gates from continuously varying voltage pairs. Add another steady gate and it all seems to fall into groove mode :)

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Re: what is it about logic modules?

Post by abstractjuz » Tue Sep 23, 2014 2:33 pm

echoplex wrote: And would I need any logic module? see my current rack in the signature.. I am doing techno music and sometimes wierdo ambieten stuff
Your Pamela's Workout would be a great trigger/clock for a Logic module.

As an example - you could use a HP or BP filtered noise source for Hi-Hats, use one Logic output to trigger your VC ADSR to create the Hi-Hat pattern and then some of the other Logic outputs to modulate the CV inputs of the same ADSR - this gives the effect of Open/Closed/Accented Hats.

Using the outputs of a Logic module to modulate Filter Cutoff works great on synth lead lines as well.

Here's another demo video that might give you some more ideas…

[video][/video]

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Post by flo » Tue Sep 23, 2014 4:43 pm

Since we're at it, here are some truth tables :hihi:

Image

:tu:

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