DIY metallik resonator?

pwranml · Post by **pwranml** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 1:18 pm

I wanna make something like this.

http://www.eowave.com/metallik.php

Besides circuit bending an sk1 and re-purposing old spring reverb tanks I've never done many complex projects in the diy realm.

Could I perhaps just get something like a cheap tiny practice guitar amp and a really thin crash cymbal off craigslist and sorta just frankenstein them into this?

If I took apart the amp and kept all the wiring intact and then mounted the speaker onto the hanging cymbal (maybe with thin rubber in between or something, could that produce a similar result?

I'm also really curious (if this did work) could I then mount a piezo on the cymbal as an output and use the whole set up as sort of weird plate reverb deal?

okelk · Post by **okelk** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:51 pm

I guess (not sure though...) that those things are basically just a sound exciter glued onto the gong-tamtam-thingy....

I wonder how big the difference between using a cymbal and a gong is....
tearing apart some old practice amp will work...or maybe something simple lm386 based would be enough (e.g. 'little gem' or 'ruby' guitar amps)...

I'm shure using this as a plate reverb will work too.
You can find a cymbal plate reverb somewhere on this page:
http://www.groenewoudnet.nl/?page_id=15

cretaceousear · Post by **cretaceousear** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 2:53 pm

Those are awesome audio samples on the Persephone site.
I reckon you need a big Tam - a cymbal will give you something but will be very toppy. A tam is a type of gong so you want something more tuned.

You could try some household things - if you have a large thin wok (e.g a proper Chinese one) you should get midtones, but I guess not much top end. (I like to give our wok a percussive knock when washing up).

You don't want a big piece of rubber touching it, as that will kill the vibrations.
Combo of cymbal and wok?
But go for it - I bet whatever you do will sound interesting

daverj · Post by **daverj** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:13 pm

They use electro-magnetic transducers to drive the metal. A number of companies make them. For example:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=speaker+transducer

scottmoon · Post by **scottmoon** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:17 pm

okelk wrote:I guess (not sure though...) that those things are basically just a sound exciter glued onto the gong-tamtam-thingy....

I wonder how big the difference between using a cymbal and a gong is....
tearing apart some old practice amp will work...or maybe something simple lm386 based would be enough (e.g. 'little gem' or 'ruby' guitar amps)...

I'm shure using this as a plate reverb will work too.
You can find a cymbal plate reverb somewhere on this page:
http://www.groenewoudnet.nl/?page_id=15

This thread is giving me some crazy ideas to build some stuff.

daverj · Post by **daverj** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:21 pm

okelk wrote:I wonder how big the difference between using a cymbal and a gong is....

[video][/video]

scottmoon · Post by **scottmoon** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 3:37 pm

The size and thickness will be the big determining factor on pitch and resonance. I have a lot of cymbals from 6" to 22" but I hesitate to drill extra holes in them. I also have an 18" gong my daughter brought back from Tibet for me. It can build up a lot of overtones. I guess I could hot glue contact mics or piezos to them.

okelk · Post by **okelk** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 4:44 pm

...btw...does anybody know a good place to buy cheap sound exiters/surface transducers in europe?

I have one of those:
http://www.reichelt.at/VIS-EX45S-8/3/in ... CH=exciter

but they are rather expensive...

Nantonos · Post by **Nantonos** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:35 pm

I made one. It cost less than the Eowave version and is closer to the Martenot original design.

Components (adjust to taste for local availability, I'm in Europe)

* Wuhan 60cm wind gong
* Monacor AR50 resonator
* some speaker cable (I used this

The AR50 is rated at 50W. It comes with a blastic disk that you are supposed to screw to a resonant wooden surface with three screws, then bolt to the resonator. I discarded this, drilled a hole in the gong (see below) and bolted the gong to the resonator. The wires from the resonator have crimp connections; i crimped on the speaker cable, and at the other end added connectors suitabkle for the amp. In my case that was a pair of 4mm banana plugs.

This needs an amp to drive it; I'm using an Alesis RA-150 which has 50W on two channels and a beefy power supply. The amp input is balanced; I use a Pulp Logic Exit Strategy but alternatives from Erthenvar or Vermona would work as well.

The Eowave Metallik uses the hanging holes at the top of the gong to suspend it, as does mine; the resonator is in turn hanging from the gong. A case isn't really needed; mine is suspended from a short cross-bar on a mic stand that I had handy. Note that this differs from the Metallique on the Ondes Martenot, where the resonator is bolted to a back brace on the cabinet and the gong is suspended from the resonator (which uses a beefy metal spider to bear the weight). Details in this post.

For the original Metallique, the mounting hole for the resonator is near the top, mabe 1/4 to 1/3 the way from the edge to the centre. But, remember that the gong is hanging from this so it is both the excitation point and the suspension point.

The Eowave Metallik uses a gong suspended from two holes, and places the resonator in a similar position to the original Ondes Martenot. But the suspension points are fixed and dampening points, so mounting close to these is sub optimal.

I hung my (undrilled) gong and experimented with tapping and hitting it. Close to the center is very boomy but rather dull. Close to the edge is sharp but thin. In between the suspension points is dull and thin. About 1/3 the way from the bottom edge to the centre has a good, rich, full sound with not too much treble and not too much bass, and a long resonance time. So that seemed like a good place to mount the exciter. But its a different place to both the Ondes Martenot and the Eowave, so I was hesitant.

Enter French Patent number FR1004397A, 15 April 1937 (so, now expired) by Maurice Martenot which describes this. Figure 1 shows a gong, suspended from two points at the top, and the bolt position for the exciter is on the midline and below the center - similar to the place I had found experimentally. So that is where I drilled. It works well.

I conclude that Martenot started with this design, but changed the exciter position when he went for a rigidly attached and braced exciter. The one he used was very heavy so would not have worked well suspended from the gong. And I conclude that Eowave simply copied the mounting point without thinking through the impact of their other changes (two-point top suspension, free hanging exciter).

Its dark now, I can take some photos later if there is interest.

scottmoon · Post by **scottmoon** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 5:47 pm

Nantonos wrote:Its dark now, I can take some photos later if there is interest.

Would love to see it and of course...hear it.

Nantonos · Post by **Nantonos** » Fri Jul 04, 2014 6:04 pm

okelk wrote:...btw...does anybody know a good place to buy cheap sound exiters/surface transducers in europe?

I have one of those:
http://www.reichelt.at/VIS-EX45S-8/3/in ... CH=exciter

but they are rather expensive...

also only 10W and looks a bit cheaply made.

Monacor AR50 on ebay, (in UK) Ãƒâ€šÃ‚Â£21.49

another source (in Germany)
AR50 on Toms Car HiFi, 20,99 ÃƒÂ¢Ã¢â‚¬Å¡Ã‚Â¬

I actually bought mine on Amazon marketplace from somewhere in Germany, would not recommend that seller so no link.

okelk · Post by **okelk** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 11:01 am

I just remembered seeing this over at the electro-music forum:

http://electro-music.com/forum/post-389243.html

Its a metallik resonator from behind.

does anybody recognize the transducer they use?

Umcorps · Post by **Umcorps** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 1:49 pm

One of THESE makes an excellent cheap-ass alternative.

Nantonos · Post by **Nantonos** » Sat Jul 05, 2014 10:29 pm

okelk wrote: does anybody recognize the transducer they use?

Its the same one I mentioned earlier in the thread, with an eowave sticker on it.

okelk · Post by **okelk** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:44 am

Nantonos wrote: Its the same one I mentioned earlier in the thread, with an eowave sticker on it.

Ah....I could have thought of that myself....

Just saw the link to the ondes martenot threat you posted earlier.
really interesting!

Nantonos · Post by **Nantonos** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:05 am

The current forum styling makes it very easy to miss unvisited links.

wednesdayayay · Post by **wednesdayayay** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:56 am

I am very interested in seeing some pictures
I've dreamed of making something like this for use with a CL plumbutter

somonochrome · Post by **somonochrome** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 12:25 pm

Umcorps wrote:One of THESE makes an excellent cheap-ass alternative.

has anyone tried to mess with it?

Annwn · Post by **Annwn** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:42 pm

I made a very crude version by jamming a couple of these:
http://www.parts-express.com/tectonic-e ... r--309-149

onto a thunder sheet and drove a VCS3 through it. At lower volumes I got a resonator/plate reverb sound though when driven, the whole sheet took off and made some pretty horrendous (i.e. awesome) noises.

Wish I took some photos.

scottmoon · Post by **scottmoon** » Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:46 pm

Annwn wrote:I made a very crude version by jamming a couple of these:
http://www.parts-express.com/tectonic-e ... r--309-149

I ordered one of these yesterday http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-aud ... r--300-374

I'm going to attach it to a big gong.

krv · Post by **krv** » Mon Jul 07, 2014 1:34 pm

Umcorps wrote:One of THESE makes an excellent cheap-ass alternative.

I did that!!! and it sounds good, it's only 1 watt amp so you can only use as a reharsal amplifier, but, at home, it's a good cheap solution + you don't really need to drill your gong... I'd sincerly love to go bigger with an amp and a transducer like that you showed before, is there any way for ot drilling holes in my gong?

cloudscapes · Post by **cloudscapes** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:53 am

Looks like I've found yet another project..

I love resonating metal. Or resonating anything! I have a 24" gong that I use/bow/experiment with reguarily. I won't be drilling any holes in it though. I'll buy a cheaper/smaller one.

cloudscapes · Post by **cloudscapes** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:06 am

What are you guys using as speaker amps for the transducers? Couple watts, right?

Nantonos · Post by **Nantonos** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:22 am

cloudscapes wrote:What are you guys using as speaker amps for the transducers? Couple watts, right?

The amp I mentioned earlier is 2x 50W.

cloudscapes · Post by **cloudscapes** » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:45 am

Nantonos wrote:
cloudscapes wrote:What are you guys using as speaker amps for the transducers? Couple watts, right?
The amp I mentioned earlier is 2x 50W.

Noticed shortly after posting, thanks! That'll teach me to skim.

I'm likely to stay under 10 watts for mine. I'm more likely to use this thing for recording than performance (so bass can be boosted in post). And I want to keep things cheap/compact untill I figure if I like it enough to build a big one.

MOD WIGGLER

MOD WIGGLER

DIY metallik resonator?

DIY metallik resonator?