Serge SSG Question

[jzilla]

Just getting into the wonderful world of Serge so my apologies for the newbie question. Should the stepped generator self oscillate if i patch (stepped) CYCLE to (stepped) IN? It's working that way with the smooth generator but not the stepped. I'm wondering if something is wrong.

Thanks!
-j

[aethersprite]

Yes, that's how you cycle it. You also need to patch a pulse into the sample input. Adjust the rate knob totally clockwise for most variance between steps.

[MindMachine]

For an excellent review of SSG uses/behaviors/patches see John Papiewski's awesome posts in the Serge Yahoo group (SMOG). Posts 822 (dated Oct 7 2001) and 832 (dated Oct 24 2001).

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/SergeModular/info

Each time I reference these I am humbled by John's knowledge of this module. Excellent source.

[primemover]

A tip is to put CYCLE out into INPUT of a USG or DTG and then put the OUTPUT from the slope into INPUT of STEPPED GEN for some nice trilling variations.

[phisynth]

Thanks MindMachine for these links, they are very informative indeed

Here are the quotes for those interested who doesn't have a Yahoo account

Post 822 :

John Papiewski Oct 7, 2001

Well, some of the recent message here have prompted me to look at the
SSG with a little more detail.

The SSG is of course the Smooth and Stepped Generator module. It
consists of two sub-modules, the top being the Smooth section, the
bottom is the Stepped section. The outputs are tied together with a
comparator at the CUPL. jack - this gives a HIGH if the smooth output is
greater and a LOW if it isn't. *** CAUTION *** HIGH at CUPL is ~ 10VDC,
LOW is ~ -10VDC. This is fine for use as a trigger but be careful when
using it as a control voltage.... you won't hurt the Serge but if you're
using it to control a VCA for example you may destroy your speakers and
bring plaster raining down on your head from shattered walls.

The Smooth section is a VC lag processor with some interesting
additions:
1. Hold input. When this goes high the output no longer tracks the
input but is held at the same level that was present when Hold went
high.
2. Cycle. This is similar to GATE on the DSG but not the same thing.
It is normally not HIGH but LOW (-10V)
The Rate knob determines the rate of lag. At zero rotation the *rate*
is low, so that translates to a lot of lag.

The Stepped section is a sample-and-hold, also with interesting
additions:
1. A rate knob. This determines how big each step is at the Stepped
output. Full rotation=big steps, zero rotation = very tiny steps.
2. Cycle jack. This is also normally LOW (-10V). More on this in
another installment.
The stepped section can serve as an extremely high quality
sample-and-hold --- MOTM's sample and hold claims a droop rate of about
1mv per second - in other words, if you do a single sample driving a VCO
at 1 volt per octave, then hold it and just listen without resampling
you should be able to hear a VCO's tone drop perceptibly, without any
trouble. An informal test I did measured < 10mv droop in 400 seconds on
the SSG. Other listening tests bear this out.

First, some simple SSG applications:
1. Linear Glide
Patch the output of a sequencer or some other stepwise DC source into
the Smooth input, then patch the Smooth output to an oscillator. See
how turning the Rate control varies how fast the glide goes. Technical
note: in this application the glide has a linear slope so you will hear
a constant gliding rate from the oscillator (for a given Rate setting
the volts/second gliding thru will be constant, it won't be faster or
slower at the beginning or the end of the glide). In other words,
perfectly nice and even.

2. Exponential Glide
Same patch as above, but now also run a short patch cord between Smooth
out and its VC Rate jack. Turn the VC rate knob clockwise so the
control voltage is affecting the Rate to some degree. Now the glide
should speed up at the end, depending on the position of the VC rate
knob.

3. VC LFO (triangle) or VCO
Run a short patch cord from IN to CYCLE. You should see the LED go from
dim to bright to dim in a nice smooth progression.
Patch SMOOTH OUT into a PCO or NTO and hear the pitch rise and fall.
Vary Rate to make it faster or slower. Use VC Rate jack & knob to make
the frequency voltage controlled.
Patch SMOOTH OUT into your audio output path, whatever it is. You can
use SMOOTH as a low-end audio VCO. Note that tracking & stability are
NOT as good as PCO, NTO or DSG in this application, but it does give you
an extra audio oscillator in a pinch. This is a triangle wave.

4. VC LFO (square) or CLOCK or VCO
Same basic patch as #3. Instead of taking the signal from SMOOTH OUT,
mult a banana plug into the patch cord connecting IN and CYCLE. This is
a square wave that jumps from +10VDC to -10VDC approximately. As in #3
you can use this as an LFO for control voltage applications or as an
audio square wave. Additionally it can be used to clock a sequencer or
other module that needs a trigger or clock source.
Note: if you use it as a trigger for the Stepped module it creates two
triggers for every cycle. I don't know why exactly but this is what
I've observed. As in #3 you can vary the frequency with a control
voltage.

5. Lowpass Filter/Lowpass Gate
Same patch as #1. Instead of patching a DC control voltage into the
input, patch an audio source in, say, any PCO waveform. Send SMOOTH OUT
to your audio output path. Notice that the sound is more or less intact
at 100% rotation of the Rate knob, and as you turn Rate counterclockwise
the harmonics and harshness get filtered and Smoothed out. Keep turning
Rate counterclockwise, the sound will disappear altogether. So you can
use this to filter harsh harmonics out of audio, or to create an unusual
filtered effect. Use the VC rate knob and jack to make this filtering
effect voltage controllable.
You can employ this effect to create an audio Gate. What's a Gate? A
gate is a general name for a device that lets you either permit or close
off an audio signal. That's usually what you use a VCA for, and VCA's
are very high quality examples of gates. You can use this patch,
especially under Voltage Control, as an unusual substitute VCA: First,
set the Rate knob at around 10 o'clock to 12 o'clock, just so your audio
is no longer audible at the output. Now send a note envelope from DSG,
DTG, or Envelope Generator to the VC rate jack, with the VC rate knob
turned sufficiently high. You are creating low quality unusual
envelopes where the harmonics are varying with amplitude. Using
harmonic rich input, you have an unusual effect. Using purer input such
as sine or triangle wave yields a more usual or typical result.

6. Sample and Hold
Now we'll use the Smooth section to create a sample and hold effect!
Send a varying signal from LFO or Random Source into Smooth In. Using a
DSG or DTG create a rectangular clock pulse with a 99% duty cycle, that
is, mostly 'on,' with a tiny 'off' part. Send that pulse into Smooth
HOLD. Turn Smooth Rate fully clockwise. Send Smooth Out to a VCO or
some other module that needs a control voltage. Play with the DSG
rise/fall times and Smooth Rate. While HOLD is low the Smooth section
takes a 'sample', when HOLD is high that sample is held.

This should be enough to get you going for a while!
More will follow later.

John P.

Post 832 :

Here's a few more things from the SSG trick bag:
First, a correction to the coupler thing!
The COUPLER goes HIGH if the STEPPED OUT voltage is greater than SMOOTH
OUT. The catalog sheds no light on this but that's what my measurements
say.

1. Pointy wave generator
Patch CYCLE to IN on the Smooth generator, then also patch SMOOTH OUT to
VC RATE. Mult another banana into SMOOTH OUT and use it for CV or
audio. Instead of generating triangle waves with linear sides you're
making exponential pointy waves. Vary RATE and VC RATE for different
effects.

2. Straightforward Sample-and-Hold, periodic
Send the output of any oscillator or LFO to the Stepped section's IN
jack. Patch up a clock using a DSG and send its trigger pulse to the
SAMPLE jack. Turn the Stepped RATE knob fully clockwise. Patch STEPPED
OUT into the CV input of an audio oscillator. Watch how the the STEPPED
OUT LED flashes brighter and dimmer in time with the clock pulse. Note
how the combination of clock pulse rate and LFO frequency affects the
stream of voltages coming out of Stepped.

3. Straightforward Sample-and-Hold, random
Use the setup in #2 but instead of using an oscillator or LFO to feed
the IN jack, use a noise source or S/H SOURCE. Now no matter how fast
or slow you run your DSG clock, you will have random pitches coming out
of your audio VCO.

4. Squashed Sample-and-Hold
Use the setup for #2 or #3, vary the Stepped section's RATE knob. Note
that as you turn the knob counterclockwise the amount of each step
becomes less and less. The RATE knob slew-limits how fast the
sample-and-hold can change. Given enough time the maximum high and low
points will still be hit but each step will be more modest. At full
counterclockwise rotation step size is inaudible - I can't hear it, can
you? At settings over 50% you can get interesting subtle
ultra-microtonal variations.

5. Loony Tunes & Merry Melodies (reg TM AOL-TIME-WARNER ; )
Patches #2 & #3 are perfect input for a quantizer if you have one. Note
that in setup #2 you have interesting repeating patterns but the
patterns inevitably have some kind of drift, unless you know the clock
and the LFO are sync'd together somehow. A quantizer won't eliminate
the drift but will turn it into something melodic. Patch #3 is fun
using a quantizer also, but instead of producing pretty repeating
patterns you'll get crazy notes all over the place.

6. Autoerotic Sample-and-Hold
Well, since you can patch the Smooth section as a square wave pulse
generator, you can use that pulse to trigger the SAMPLE input of the
Stepped side. Strangely though, for every cycle of the square wave you
get TWO evenly spaced triggers .. so the clock rate for the Smooth pulse
generator is doubled if it's used as an S/H trigger.

7. Zero-crossing detector
Noting that the COUPLER output goes high if STEPPED OUT is greater than
SMOOTH OUT, you can use this as a simple spare comparator. Patch any AC
coupled signal into Smooth IN and take the COUPLER out to trigger or do
something ... every time Smooth IN goes NEGATIVE, if nothing's going
into Stepped IN and Stepped's essentially unused, that satisfies the
condition of Stepped being GREATER, and the COUPLER goes HIGH. ..again
PLEASE NOTE that due to the wide voltage swing of the COUPLER output,
take great care using it for audio and CV applications!
Note also, you don't need to send SMOOTH OUT or STEPPED OUT anywhere in
this application.

8. Up/Down staircase generator.
Patch Stepped's CYCLE to IN. Note that, unlike doing this with a DSG or
the Smooth section, you're not getting a repeating cycle. Now send a
clock pulse to SAMPLE. Turn the RATE knob fully clockwise. You can
patch STEPPED OUT to your audio VCO again. It will be a somewhat jerky
rising and falling staircase, a staircase that rises stepwise to a
maximum then falls stepwise to a minimum. Now rotate RATE
counterclockwise ... you will hear the number of steps per cycle
increase, and the size of each step decrease proportionately. So you'll
be hearing lots of itty bitty steps rising to a peak, then falling off
to a minimum. Very cute. At full counterclockwise rotation of RATE the
steps will be inaudibly tiny ... it will simply sound like a smooth
rising and falling like a nice smooth sided triangle LFO. Now vary the
clock rate going into SAMPLE and see how that changes the output. The
size of the steps of the staircase depends on RATE, and the speed of the
steps depends on the clock going into SAMPLE.

Well, taking the 6 applications in the first installment with the 8 in
this one brings us to 14 applications of the SSG - that is, ONE TWO-PART
SERGE MODULE. Just think about that for a minute. Now please consider
that these are fairly BASIC SSG applications. For the next installment,
I will get into some more advanced stuff....

Till then, peace to all

John P.

and my favorite SSG patch of all time (post 833)

In this installment I'll cover a more advanced application of the
legendary Serge Smooth & Stepped Generator.

The Serge catalog entry for the SSG describes the coupler section as
being related to another module, the Random Source (RS) ... that the RS
is in fact a Noise Source internally hooked to an SSG ... and that the
SSG can be patched up as a Random Voltage Generator ... but
tantalyzingly and oh-so-typically of Serge (and Buchla I think) to not
say how it's done... at least not in the catalog.

So what the SSG does is somehow take a random signal and deliver the
Random Source's random pulses, random stepped and random smooth signals.

Doing this is a very handy thing for Blue Funstation owners, or anyone
who happens to have a Random Source and an SSG ... and has a desire for
multiple uncorrelated random signals --- in other words, a slow random
smooth voltage controlling one vco, a rapid stepped random voltage
controlling another one at the same time. Or other combinations.

First off, an SSG can't be used as a Random Voltage Generator all by
itself, it needs a random signal to feed it. You need the S/H source of
a Serge Noise Source or Random Source. Patch it into the IN jack of the
Stepped side of the SSG. Now patch the COUPLER to SAMPLE of the Stepped
side, mult another patch cord into COUPLER, and patch it into the IN
jack of the Smooth side. That's it.

The Smooth random voltages are available at SMOOTH OUT, the stepped ones
are at STEPPED OUT, and random pulses are available at the COUPLER
(which is also patched to SAMPLE and Smooth IN).

With the Stepped RATE knob at full, varying the RATE knob of the Stepped
site changes the rate of BOTH the Smooth and Stepped random voltages.
This exactly what the Random Source has. Varying the RATE of the
Stepped side changes the amplitude of your Smooth and Stepped random
voltages ... so turning the Stepped RATE knob down reduces the amplitude
of the signal at the OUT jacks.

Of course, the Smooth RATE and the Stepped RATE can be
voltage-controlled via their respective VC RATE jacks & controls too.

The fun doesn't stop here though ... see what happens if, instead of
using the S/H source to feed the SSG, you use an oscillator, or a DSG,
or a sequencer....

Have fun!

John P.

[MindMachine]

Thank you phisynth. I took the yahoo page number notes from a notebook I have. My browser is too outdated to even log into yahoo forums. I will be getting a new computer.

John P. is one of the most analytical minds when it comes to the Serge. He has also made a number of trippy recordings as m/n/m/l and I think he used to play with Grant Richter, Michael Firman, etc. as part of the Midwest Electronic Music Ensemble.

MM

[jzilla]

Thanks for the super helpful responses! This is turning out to be a great thread.

Looks like there may be something up with my stepped gen... Going to take another stab before calling Rex...

[primemover]

Sometimes when using too wide pulses it doesn't respond properly. Then you can try a triangle or saw instead.

[mike sheridan]

Wow, i have never quite understood all about the SSG but these tips are certainly helping!

We should make a compilation of "manuals" or tips for serge modules as a sticky...

[primemover]

We should make a compilation of "manuals" or tips for serge modules as a sticky...

+1 very often these questions about USG/DTG/SSG comes up. And they have so many uses.

[jzilla]

Sometimes when using too wide pulses it doesn't respond properly. Then you can try a triangle or saw instead.

Right, right. I think I read in the 'wizardry' section of the sts site, that the pulse onset won't re-trigger if it's overlapping with the previous pulse.

[jzilla]

I've been experimenting with the concepts in this thread and it's really opened things up for me. Thanks, ya'all. So informative!

[fiocz]

The use of the smooth out of the SSG as a linear glide with a seq. gave me some serious goosebumps . Now it's time to make some serious acid .

[primemover]

The use of the smooth out of the SSG as a linear glide with a seq. gave me some serious goosebumps . Now it's time to make some serious acid .

Yeah. If I was rex I'd promote a full panel containing seq a and creature blocks with pulse divider and n-comp in the middle as MUTATED ACID BEAST!!1!

Also i like to use cycle out of smooth in cycling mode to trigger sample on the stepped side also in cycle mode. Then use comp out to modulate rate of the smooth and use the smooth out to modulate rate of the stepped. Now stick all the outputs into your oscs, vcf and vca.

[pannikel]

A tip is to put CYCLE out into INPUT of a USG or DTG and then put the OUTPUT from the slope into INPUT of STEPPED GEN for some nice trilling variations.

apologies for the zombie thread but I wonder if someone could explain the above to me, I've returned to it a few times and there is obviously a lot of information missing from this tip, but I cannot get to the bottom of it. Trilling variations sounds good but no idea how to set the ssg up for this- thankyou

[MindMachine]

A tip is to put CYCLE out into INPUT of a USG or DTG and then put the OUTPUT from the slope into INPUT of STEPPED GEN for some nice trilling variations.

apologies for the zombie thread but I wonder if someone could explain the above to me, I've returned to it a few times and there is obviously a lot of information missing from this tip, but I cannot get to the bottom of it. Trilling variations sounds good but no idea how to set the ssg up for this- thankyou

I do not get trills but a semi barber pole like continuous climb. What is missing in the note above, I think, is a mixer. You need to mix the SSG Stepped Cycle OUT with the DTG or DUSG OUT - then put the Mixer OUT to the SSG Stepped Cycle IN.

Pretty cool idea at any rate. I never really thought about combining inputs to the IN on the SSG.

[beem]

When are the cycle outputs high actually?
I can't get then to go high from anything in the inputs other than themselves.

[texturerama]

Here are the quotes for those interested who doesn't have a Yahoo account

Just got an SSG yesterday and can't wait to try this. Thank you for reposting it here– it looks the original site went down.

[1kip]

Thanks for the necro, that's pretty interesting! I'm into Serge for a few weeks so patch ideas are always welcomed!