Arturia applies to trademark "Synthi" and releases

[chamomileshark]

I've provided some simple audio demos of the VCS3 on the KvR forum as most people don't have access to one.

Aside from the whole thing of their dealings with Robin, I think if you are going to trade on the cache of an icon they could have done a better job. SIAC (Reaktor ensemble) sounds to me more accurate and more in the spirit of the EMS. That was Zootook a decade or so ago and I don't think he had access to a Synthi.

and to me the Mellotron is even worse (and I wonder if they sorted that out with the owners of that trademark).

One thing I have noticed though was that they seem to have dropped the endorsement by the great and the good - I think they did that with several of their earlier synths but I didn't see anyone like JMJ saying how accurate their Synthi V was...

[papz]

In March 2018, Baptiste Le Goff, a Product Manager of Arturia, asked me if I could cooperate to a software Synthi AKS project that would be the best ever by giving infos and testing the software to get it as close as possible to the real thing. I replied I'd be happy to cooperate as long as Arturia has an agreement with Robin Wood. He replied that they had contacted Robin, he was ok and an agreement was pending. I trusted him and accepted.

I helped them providing many info about operation and circuits, replying the developer's questions... At some point they asked me if I could help find a Synthi for sale or to rent, I offered to lend one of my perfectly working AKS. In September 2018 I visited the Arturia premises in Grenoble to bring the Synthi, meet the crew and see the first drafts of the software. Everybody there was very friendly and at the time of signing the lending contract, I asked about the agreement with Robin and was told all was ok.

The rest of the story is explained in previous posts : there was no actual agreement with Robin, they even stole his SYNTHI brand behind his back. So they are thieves and liars. I won't detail tractations here but it seems that the aforementioned "amicable" agreement also failed : Robin will get nothing and plans to defend his rights in a legal action.

I resigned in February 2019 and they returned my Synthi.

Next to this, the untruthful communication about the MicroFreak introducing it as a "collaboration with their friends of Mutable Instruments" (it was not, they just used Mutable Instruments' open source code) made me realize a bit lately that they actually did not want any real input from me, most suggestions that I did about the software were instantly rejected even before to give them a try 'it will be too difficult technically', despite I insisted on that these were essential to reproduce the "real" Synthi experience they claim they want to offer. I found it suprising because at the same time they told they wanted me to be very picky when I'd test the software, and point any difference.
I was naive. It's now clear that they were more interested in using me and my good reputation regarding the Synthi to do name dropping, like they did with Mutable Instrument and in their promotional videos for other products.

I didn't test the software, but I'm not surprised to read that it doesn't sound like a Synthi. It just can't sound neither behave like a Synthi the way it was done.

[ersatzplanet]

Papz - it looks like that the only thing they used your Synthi for was the photo shoot and the video.

[papz]

I see what you mean and totally agree except that it's not my Synthi on the pic and video but another one.

Synthi V looks and feels as good as it sounds.

I couldn't say better.

[gminorcoles]

What a bizarre tale. It's a small world why would they not go straight to the source and work directly with EMS?

[mgscheue]

Emilie made quite similar comments. She met with Arturia but they had already pretty much made up their minds about the MicroFreak and weren’t really interested in hearing any substantive input.

[papz]

What a bizarre tale. It's a small world why would they not go straight to the source and work directly with EMS?

Because Arturia's managers are thieves, think like thieves and act like thieves. Working with EMS was the initial project but when they noticed the opportunity to rather grab the Synthi brand, they just did it. One cannot go against his nature.

[Triglav]

What a bizarre tale. It's a small world why would they not go straight to the source and work directly with EMS?

Because Arturia's managers are thieves, think like thieves and act like thieves. Working with EMS was the initial project but when they noticed the opportunity to rather grab the Synthi brand, they just did it. One cannot go against his nature.

What's your opinion on the iVCS3 iPad app? I haven't had the chance to try a real VCS3 (although I've played with a Synthi 100) but it seems pretty well done.

[papz]

I only saw the iVCS3 on a friend's phone once, actually I'm not very interested in software synths.
We compared AB with a real VCS3 and it's not the same of course (tbh I think no software will ever be able to sound and behave close to a VCS3) but the interface respects the VCS3 look and the $15 price makes it a more interesting bargain than other much more expensive emulations.

It's good to mention that the owners of the iVCS3 app have a fair license agreement with Robin Wood and respect it.

[snufkin]

Basically Arturia are complete scum, I wouldn't touch their products after these two examples of predatory activity.

[chamomileshark]

I feel a bit bad that I'd previously got the CMI and Synclavier. I know the Synclavier is probably ok given Cameron's involvement. Less sure about the CMI.

[doepferiano]

I love more my VCS3 than my iVCS3 !

(don't blame me Alessandro ! )

I only saw the iVCS3 on a friend's phone once, actually I'm not very interested in software synths.
We compared AB with a real VCS3 and it's not the same of course (tbh I think no software will ever be able to sound and behave close to a VCS3) but the interface respects the VCS3 look and the $15 price makes it a more interesting bargain than other much more expensive emulations.

It's good to mention that the owners of the iVCS3 app have a fair license agreement with Robin Wood and respect it.

[misa]

Whoa, papz, that is quite shocking!

And thank you for getting your side of the story out to make people reconsider getting Arturo’s products.

[cornwallradiophonic]

Whoa, papz, that is quite shocking!

And thank you for getting your side of the story out to make people reconsider getting Arturo’s products.

i pondered a few Arturia products soon , i wont go near the shite now.

Its like the moral ethics almost totally gone in many humans now , i find this story fucking unbelievable , who owns that company or made that decision ?

[deftinwulf]

Jesus Christ, Arturia.

I'm so glad I sold my Keystep and bought a Mantis instead of a Rackbrute.

The Microfreak was bad enough, but based on Emilie's followup comments (and retractions of previous comments by way of deletion), it seemed that some misunderstanding had occurred and been rectified. So I forgave it.

But after this situation and papz recounting of it, I'm done with Arturia. Shocking, disgusting behavior.

[kinkujin]

I’m glad to have read this though it saddens and sickens me. I’m not surprised as not much in the capitalist mindset does surprise me. Humans be humans - but reading others comments from this forum does give hope in the humans.

I’m sure some of my purchasing decisions are not pure, but I do believe I have bought my last Arturia product.

[ranix]

Amazing and disappointing to hear how Arturia have gone down the toilet. I really love the hardware I've gotten from them so far and the way they've treated their customers, like when they released schematics for the MiniBrute. I love my Beatstep Pro. But bad management kills companies when left unchecked, and if they've got managers acting like thieves the company's days are numbered. It's a very fast race to the bottom once the company starts acting that way.

[Stides]

I actually don't mind that I've bootlegged this collection. Before I did so, I googled this and find this thread. Didn't Glen Darcy left this garbage dump of a company? Ripped off EMS, Mutable, Steiner, Moog, Roland? I've got a bin of their broken synths and Sequencers.... BSP and Minibrute. I'm done.

[snadge]

My opinion of this shitshow made me realise that respect of intellectual property works both ways.

Yarr!

[galanter2]

I don't know much about Arturia other than this: I have one of their AudioFuse interfaces and it's fantastic. Sound quality, build quality, ease of use, long list of features, support, everything…really top notch.

[MARK27]

This is one of a number of threads on MW lately with which I don't know how to engage without violating the "no politics" rule. I guess it is just up to moderators' subjective opinions whether or not the rule applies.

The only thing I feel comfortable adding is that one of the ways I try to work against these practices is to give as much of my hard-earned money to small (ideally one person) operations whose perspectives can be more easily examined. It's really hard to examine the practices of a company of any substantial size without necessarily also examining and implicating the political and economic systems in which those companies exist.

I also like supporting artists and engineers in the developing world like this guy:

[CrysWiz]

I don't know much about Arturia other than this: I have one …

Maybe reading this whole thread can help you with that.

[ricko]

Then isn't this the end of it?

As dan_p wrote "I'm finding it hard to comprehend how anyone can think it isn't at least a little bit out of order to register someone else trademark of a product still in production."

I think in most jurisdictions, a trademark only applies to a single kind of product. So EMS should trademark the name both for hardware and software. But that won't give them.any rights against my new "Synthi" brand constipation pills, say. But if EMS didn't then put out software for some period (5 years?) it will lapse. You cannot squat on names and even logos.

Trademarks are not rights that you own, they are limited monopolies granted temporarily by governments to help markets function better by suppressing fakes. Someone using a trademarked name of someone else's for a different kind of product is in no way "stealing" or being unethical.

Similarly with trademarked logos. (Trademarked logos may have a copyright aspect with different ramifications to trademarked names.)

(Also, when a trademark becomes generic it de facto lapses. At one stage, "Moog" was in danger of this, as all synths were called Moog in general use. )

To me, people from English-speaking countries have a cultural disease of trying to own everything they can get away with: squatters. Too much.

Member was Warned for this post - bigotry or discrimination based upon immutable characteristics is against the forum guidelines. Please review them before posting again. - Joe

[synthichap]

To me, people from English-speaking countries have a cultural disease of trying to own everything they can get away with: squatters. Too much.

Thanks for your insight re: trademarks.
Please keep your slurs and cultural biases to yourself in future.
They are offensive and irrelevant.
Mods, please take note.

[ricko]

*Snip* Political Rant about Covid removed - Joe.