Jasper - Another Wasp Clone

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gasboss775
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Post by gasboss775 » Sat Feb 27, 2016 6:15 am

Excellent! :burns:

Do you have a Schematic of your version, or is it identical to the original?
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Post by jasonl » Sat Feb 27, 2016 7:03 am

gasboss775 wrote:Excellent! :burns:

Do you have a Schematic of your version, or is it identical to the original?
Posted back on page 7 of this thread. (viewtopic.php?t=151625&postdays=0&posto ... &start=157)

It's pretty much identical to the original Wasp.

A few changes to resistor values to make it usable with modern TI CD4069 chips, and 1M pots. I also added a notch filter and audio input with variable gain using unused sections of 4069 chips. 8-)

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PCBs

Post by jasonl » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:19 pm

Update 2 March 2016
The boards are being sent back 'for rework'. So with luck everything will be put right. Unfortunately this will take three weeks or so. So sending out the boards is delayed.

original post

OK. Good news.

The Jasper PCBs arrived. So I opened the boxes.

Bad news.

They screwed up the silkscreen. Instead of nice bright waspish yellow is this.

Image

This is the front side of the PCB.

I.:bang: Am. :bang: Not. :bang: Happy. :bang:

Contacted the supplier at their UK office. Their email back suggested it wasn’t ‘a quality issue’. They used ‘photoimageable ink’ instead of thermosetting ink which ‘is a bit transparent’ on black – reason for speed after the new year.

Bit of an understatement there. In my opinion this combination of transparent ink and black soldermask should not have been possible. :despair:

I emailed back saying this isn’t acceptable, as the legend is pretty much unreadable, and that making up the boards becomes extremely difficult. They’ve just emailed back not accepting responsibility but offering a small refund/credit (less than 10% of the order), or to take the boards back for rework if I send them in (by Friday preferably). Just mailed back asking what the nature of the rework will be and time-scale.

Apparently the panels have been done using thermosetting ink, so should be opaque and bright. These are due tomorrow, so we’ll see.

So I need to work out what to do. I’m going to wait for the panels and see what they look like...

Then need to decide:
  • * to send the PCBs back for rework
    * accept the ‘refund/discount’ and use it against ordering another batch and decide what to do with this first lot.
:help:
Grr. Things were going so smoothly too.

My apologies to everyone waiting for Jasper. It’s going to be a bit longer I’m afraid.

And another thing: :bang:
Last edited by jasonl on Wed Mar 02, 2016 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

mckenic

Re: PCBs

Post by mckenic » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:32 pm

jasonl wrote:They used ‘photoimageable ink’ instead of thermosetting ink which ‘is a bit transparent’ on black – reason for speed after the new year.

They’ve just emailed back not accepting responsibility
I dont know - unless you ordered Photoimageable by accident(it could happen) I'd say you didnt get what you paid for!

Saying that a clear pic to build from and its not the worst thing in the world!

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Post by shiftr » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:33 pm

Oh that's a shame! :goo:
I'm feel sorry for you.. That must be a big shock opening up a big order like this and discovering this!
If there is anything we can do to help you with this. Also no problem for me if the boards end up a little more expensive. And for me personal i can even deal with the :zombie: board if it doesn't work out.

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Re: PCBs

Post by jasonl » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:42 pm

mckenic wrote: I dont know - unless you ordered Photoimageable by accident(it could happen) I'd say you didnt get what you paid for!

Saying that a clear pic to build from and its not the worst thing in the world!
They didn't give a choice. It was a manual order due to the combination of silkscreen and soldermask. I specified Yellow silk screen (twice actually) and not unreasonably expected it to be a similar opacity and consistency with the white silk on my prototype.

It's especially galling that in their email they said they used the thermosetting ink for the panel. Why not use the same for both? :despair:

Time to price up some vinyl stickers for the keyboard, perhaps?

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Post by jasonl » Mon Feb 29, 2016 2:49 pm

shiftr wrote:Oh that's a shame! :goo:
I'm feel sorry for you.. That must be a big shock opening up a big order like this and discovering this!
If there is anything we can do to help you with this. Also no problem for me if the boards end up a little more expensive. And for me personal i can even deal with the :zombie: board if it doesn't work out.
I did allow for some embuggerence factor... but hadn't expected something this bad. I had hoped to spend time tonight building one up taking photos for the construction guide. :waah:

Not sure what can be done at the moment, other than waiting to see how the rest of this week pans out. Anyone good at silkscreening?

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Isaiah
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Post by Isaiah » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:16 pm

jasonl
Oh no! :doh:
How frustrating! I really feel for you after all your effort.

I'm curious what the "rework" entails.

Personally, I don't mind waiting and even paying extra if this can be rectified.
But please, don't let this become a massive headache for you!

Thanks again for making this happen, Jason. :tu:

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delayed
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Post by delayed » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:22 pm

I don't mind that look too much if you decide to send those out. Or if you want to sell them as an 'Opps' addition, if you decide order more, I would not mind paying for one of these. Adding one to my order should not add that much to the shipping cost.

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Post by leeski » Mon Feb 29, 2016 3:49 pm

sorry to hear this jasonl
I don't mind paying an extra bit to get the best thing sorted
Many thanks for getting this going :tu:
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Post by LED-man » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:05 pm

Not a big deal for ME to add the parts without silkscreen.
The most parts are ic sockets;)
Some other projects use numbers for resistors instead of resistor values.
It needs more time but it's ok for "little" projects.

But for the keyboard it's not acceptable
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Post by papz » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:18 pm

Sorry for the hassle ! This company is not very fair.

If the PCBs are returned for rework, do they guarantee it will be as expected ?
Finest EMS gear service and Music Easel/208 goodies

I'm not a synths dealer and don't know of any cheap Synthi secret market.
I don't offer support for attempts to build clones of EMS equipment.
Please don't ask, thanks.

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Post by jasonl » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:25 pm

Thanks all for your support! it's really appreciated.
Isaiah wrote:jasonl
Oh no! :doh:
How frustrating! I really feel for you after all your effort.

I'm curious what the "rework" entails.
I'd like to know that as well before committing.
LED-man wrote:Not a big deal for ME to add the parts without silkscreen.
The most parts are ic sockets;)
Some other projects use numbers for resistors instead of resistor values.
It needs more time but it's ok for "little" projects.

But for the keyboard it's not acceptable
I quite agree. That's why I want to only send out boards that are acceptable.

In very good light you can just make out the labels, so for an experienced builder it'll probably be OK to build - especially with a printed guide.

I'll see what tomorrow brings and let you guys know what's happening. Cheers, and thanks again for your understanding.

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Post by Starspawn » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:25 pm

What led man said, dont care for parts, but keyboard needs some fix.

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Post by BugBrand » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:26 pm

Sad to hear!
I'd personally be fine with the PCBs as they are, but..

If a PCB house did this to me I'd complain as firmly as possible - calmly, but firmly until they sorted their mess out. Any other way is unacceptable! Sometimes it helps to phone - again, the firm approach in calm terms, making clear that this is not acceptable. Fobbing you off with a minor discount should make you doubly determined to make them do it right.

[interested to hear what the rework would entail? If they can apply a 2nd silkscreen that'd be fine - not sure if that's do-able though?]

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Post by jasonl » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:29 pm

papz wrote:Sorry for the hassle ! This company is not very fair.

If the PCBs are returned for rework, do they guarantee it will be as expected ?
Quite. I don't have that information yet. Will sleep on it and try and work out the options tomorrow.

Thanks for your understanding.

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Post by jasonl » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:42 pm

BugBrand wrote:Sad to hear!
I'd personally be fine with the PCBs as they are, but..

If a PCB house did this to me I'd complain as firmly as possible - calmly, but firmly until they sorted their mess out. Any other way is unacceptable! Sometimes it helps to phone - again, the firm approach in calm terms, making clear that this is not acceptable. Fobbing you off with a minor discount should make you doubly determined to make them do it right.
Good advice. I'll see what their reply is tomorrow and take it from there. I haven't accepted anything from them yet, and did question the derisory refund.
BugBrand wrote: [interested to hear what the rework would entail? If they can apply a 2nd silkscreen that'd be fine - not sure if that's do-able though?]
That's what I'm not clear about. I suppose it's be possible for a new silkscreen... shouldn't be a problem for the keyboard part anyway even if the component legends are iffy.

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masterofstuff124
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Post by masterofstuff124 » Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:52 pm

i would imagine enough of us would be willing to buy these incorrect pcbs at cost. and shipped along with our actual order. assuming they are still fully functional the end product is the same. a DOPE synthesizer. just my 2 cents. Id happily buy one of these dud boards if only to speed up the next buy(for correct PCB)


it would also give me a reason to print that awesome wood enclosure you posted!

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Post by Reality Checkpoint » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:04 pm

How very frustrating for you Jason! :bang:

I am more than happy to wait for the correct PCBs, and also chip in for a rerun if required.

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Post by mOBiTh » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:27 pm

man it's the asian night hornet edition :hihi:

http://gawker.com/this-hornet-will-be-t ... 1428724767

I reckon you should name and shame the fab house at the very least so we can avoid them.

I would personally be furious if they had sent me those - anyone with half a braincell would know that wasn't the intended result. keep pushing for a new batch and get some decals for these!
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Post by Grumskiz » Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:50 pm

For me it's not a deal-breaker. But sttill, I agree with Mr. Bugs:
This is bad service from the PCB shop and even though it's a hassle I think you should talk to them about it. They did the right thing with the panel PCBs, so to me it just seems like the f***ed up with the component PCBs and now react with "not my problem". Just how didn't they notice that the silkscreen is almost invisible? If they can fix it now, why not right then?

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Post by mikecameron » Mon Feb 29, 2016 7:41 pm

I would think that unless you had been warned and signed an agreement to accept the outcome of the color choice, you have grounds to refuse the batch. Someone was obviously asleep at the wheel here.

I've worked in the printing industry for years and have seen jobs like this. People lose their jobs over mistakes like this because it shows that they weren't paying attention. Surely once they had set up and run 1 board, they could have attempted to verify the result was what you intended. Nope, they just ran it through.

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Post by SoundPool » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:22 am

Normally it wouldn't matter to me for the build- the only issue is the keyboard part. In low light in a venue setting I can see the keys being totally unreadable/playable like that. I would vote for re-work if that is the most they are willing to budge on. Too bad it needs to be an issue at all in the first place.

Like Bugs said, being calm and firm hopefully you can get it resolved. If need be maybe you can leverage them saying you are willing to spread the word about the shoddy job and service the PCB house did if to a very large ordering community if they refuse to rectify the error.

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Post by jasonl » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:38 am

Thanks again for all your support.

I don't want to name and shame in a public place just yet. I've been impressed by the quality of the prototypes and other large PCBs I got from them in the past. So thought it'd be safe for a larger order. :sadbanana:

I'm going to see what the panel PCBs look like, they should arrive later today.

I'm minded to send them back for "rework" whatever that entails, all I know now is that it will likely take 3 weeks. Depending on how they look after that, I may decide to use them as 'seconds', or see if they're good enough to send out.

In the meantime I'm investigating alternatives manufactured a bit closer to home. Problem is they're a fair bit more expensive, and will take quite a while to produce. But hey, I guess you get what you pay for.

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Post by mush » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:44 am

I don't have a big problem with the silk-screen issue - I'd prefer yellow print - but I'd take it as it is if the rework option ain't working. :)

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