Two Thousand Six Hundred (TTSH) Ver.1 General build thread

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mokkinger
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Envelope not fully working - where to look at first?

Post by mokkinger » Wed May 21, 2014 6:39 pm

hi guys,
just completed my build, and besides the clock bleed and the white noise in the left speaker I have a strange occurance in the ADSR section. from time to time the leds of the ADSR go down, and then no envelope is available any more. switching off/on angain sometimes helps, sometimes not... already checked for solder blobs and the likes, all fine... could it be a broken tranny? any hint where to start the search?

and a stupid question from a CV/Gate noob: to play the meanie with my SH101 - how must I connect the 101 to use the gate, and NOT have the OSC always running?

thanks for a quick help...!?

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sduck
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Post by sduck » Wed May 21, 2014 6:57 pm

Sounds like a power connector issue. The leds of each section are powered off the main power for that section, which is handy for locating bad power connections in particular.

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ultravox
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Re: Envelope not fully working - where to look at first?

Post by ultravox » Wed May 21, 2014 7:12 pm

mokkinger wrote: and a stupid question from a CV/Gate noob: to play the meanie with my SH101 - how must I connect the 101 to use the gate, and NOT have the OSC always running?
Congrats on completing the build. The OSC's are always running by design. If you hearing them without pressing Manual Start button or a keyboard key then you probably have the Initial Gain slider raised in the amplifier section. Slide it full left a you shouldn't hear anything without initiating a trigger first.

I'm not sure what outputs the SH101 has but you'll want to connect it's CV out to the KBD CV jack on front of the TTSH. Send the 101's Gate and Trigger outputs to the Gate and Trigger inputs in the AR/ADSR section. That's the basic setup to control pitch of all 3 OSC's and both AR/ADSR envelopes.

Cheers!

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lessavyfav
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Post by lessavyfav » Wed May 21, 2014 7:37 pm

Dedicated clock bleed thread anyone? 8_)

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sduck
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Post by sduck » Wed May 21, 2014 8:50 pm

sduck wrote:
xpmtl wrote:
sduck wrote:Wow - just found another big glaring problem with this one. The pulse width fader isn't working on VCO3 - all that happens is the fader LEDs fade out at the extremes of the travel. It's a pretty extreme problem - I'm suspecting a bad fader, or perhaps a clipped lead fell behind it and is shorting something out. Don't know what else could be doing something like this. Yuck, I'm going to have to pull the panel off I reinstalled so carefully last night.
Did you note that the input of vco3 in the vcf is the saw wave?

the led thing is weird tho, don't have that on mine
Yes, what's happening is when I patch from the pulse out directly to the VCF is that the pulse doesn't change right until I hit the extremes where the LEDs start acting up. So there's either something wrong with the fader or the LM301. Or some stupid solder bridge somewhere.
It was the fader. Replaced it (after testing everything else that might have been easier to replace) and everything's working fine.

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Re: Envelope not fully working - where to look at first?

Post by Heavy Metal Kid » Thu May 22, 2014 1:17 am

ultravox wrote:
mokkinger wrote: and a stupid question from a CV/Gate noob: to play the meanie with my SH101 - how must I connect the 101 to use the gate, and NOT have the OSC always running?
Congrats on completing the build. The OSC's are always running by design. If you hearing them without pressing Manual Start button or a keyboard key then you probably have the Initial Gain slider raised in the amplifier section. Slide it full left a you shouldn't hear anything without initiating a trigger first.

I'm not sure what outputs the SH101 has but you'll want to connect it's CV out to the KBD CV jack on front of the TTSH. Send the 101's Gate and Trigger outputs to the Gate and Trigger inputs in the AR/ADSR section. That's the basic setup to control pitch of all 3 OSC's and both AR/ADSR envelopes.

Cheers!
Send the gate out of the 101 into the preamp in of the TTSH. Then send the amplified gate into the trigger/gate in. Trim the preamp knob until you get the gates you want.

This is needed since the SH101 sends 5V gates out, while the TTSH expects 10V gates.

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scribble744
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Alternate front panel switch

Post by scribble744 » Thu May 22, 2014 1:52 am

Found these nice switches at Sayal Electronics in Toronto:

http://www.sayal.com/zinc/zinc_SEARCH.a ... DP&x=0&y=0

Single Pole Single Throw...fits perfectly into the TTSH panel.

the part no. is MRH10-C5N-BWN-DP

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xpmtl
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Post by xpmtl » Thu May 22, 2014 3:29 am

Those switches must be the same as the Marquardt ones someone proposed as replacement of the NKK.

I bought one of those @ mouser (ref :979-1901.1103) and they fit indeed fine.

Talking of BOM and Parts, the 2200uF caps of the mouser cart (ref : 647-LKG1H222MESCBK) don't fit the pcb. they are too wide and cover surrounding parts. The description is fine on the mouser page, but what they send is not the right ones.

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Post by mokkinger » Thu May 22, 2014 3:38 am

thanks guys, I think now I understood the concept of a prewired modular :)
the ADSR works now, so when I manually trigger the envelope with the button, it sounds good!

but somehow my 101 sends a constant CV, so once I plug it into keyb CV, a tone is generated, that is (very quiet) still audible, even with initial gain off... once I unplug the 101, its gone. and the gate doesnt work yet - havent checked the preamp yet, but, it looks like I am doing sth. wrong here. cant be the ADSR as the S/H Gate works and produces nice random notes :)

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Post by ultravox » Thu May 22, 2014 5:00 am

mokkinger wrote: but somehow my 101 sends a constant CV, so once I plug it into keyb CV, a tone is generated, that is (very quiet) still audible, even with initial gain off... once I unplug the 101, its gone. and the gate doesnt work yet - havent checked the preamp yet, but, it looks like I am doing sth. wrong here. cant be the ADSR as the S/H Gate works and produces nice random notes :)
I believe CV is always present. The voltage representing the last key pressed will always be present until you change it by pressing another key. To see if you have a problem: start with all sliders down or left. Tune OSC 1 to any pitch. Raise OSC1's slider in the VCF and slide the Initial Filter Frequency Slider to the right. Raise the VCF and AR sliders in the VCA. Raise the VCA slider in the Mixer. There should be no sound present in the speakers until you press the manual start button or a keyboard key. If you hear something without initiating a trigger then try adjusting the Exponential Gain pot to reduce it.

Have you completed the calibration?

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minor probs

Post by MarcMooga » Thu May 22, 2014 8:25 am

Hi,

I have following problems:

Noise Generator bleeding through left speaker.
Power switch doesn't fit!?
Self threading 2,9mm screws are way too small - What type have you used?

Biggest problems:
Somehow I must have used a wrong resistor as the brightness only in the
VCA Section of the LEDs is very low. Does anybody know which resistor is reponsible for that?

Other than that again with the LEDs... I have no bleed through from the internal clock (or at least not yet recognized) but all leds are a having a minor bit higher brightness when the led of the internal clock is off.
I wasn't able to find the 47uF Cap in the Finishing up Section. Maybe that's the reason? Where have you located the 47uF?

Thanks for your help! :hyper:

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tojpeters
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Post by tojpeters » Thu May 22, 2014 8:56 am

LED brightness- Did you try adjusting the trimmer?

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Re: minor probs

Post by flts » Thu May 22, 2014 9:17 am

MarcMooga wrote:Noise Generator bleeding through left speaker.
See past few pages (and a bit earlier) for some discussion on this, I've yet to update the first post. Seems like at least using properly shielded cable for the headphone jack (and tying the shield to headphone jack ground pin) helps some, and routing the cable so that it doesn't pass past the noise gen area. For others the issue is still unsolved.
Power switch doesn't fit!?
Which exact model do you have? The intended one seems like a tight fit but will still fit.
Self threading 2,9mm screws are way too small - What type have you used?
Someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread, can't remember exact solution but apparently he used just a tiny bit bigger ones (maybe like half a millimeter wider and a bit longer? can't remember).
Somehow I must have used a wrong resistor as the brightness only in the
VCA Section of the LEDs is very low. Does anybody know which resistor is reponsible for that?
Mine was the same. There's an unlabeled trimmer hole in the far left side of PCB / panel (hole between preamp to env follower and vco 1 to ring mod jacks) that adjusts LED brightness - once you turn it up bright enough the VCA LEDs will light up to the same level as others.
Other than that again with the LEDs... I have no bleed through from the internal clock (or at least not yet recognized) but all leds are a having a minor bit higher brightness when the led of the internal clock is off.
I wasn't able to find the 47uF Cap in the Finishing up Section. Maybe that's the reason? Where have you located the 47uF?
The 47uF is on the other side (the "component side" / "back side") of the board than the other "finishing up" components. It's pretty close to the board edge somewhere - can't remember the exact spot but just check out the board edges and you'll probably find it.
Never stop loving music

MarcMooga
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Post by MarcMooga » Thu May 22, 2014 9:25 am

Great tojpeters that helped! I never adjusted the trimmer as I thought the leds are bright enough.

The led problems are gone! Thank you! :yay:

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Re: minor probs

Post by fuzzbass » Thu May 22, 2014 9:33 am

MarcMooga wrote:Hi,

I have following problems:

Noise Generator bleeding through left speaker.
Power switch doesn't fit!?
Self threading 2,9mm screws are way too small - What type have you used?

Biggest problems:
Somehow I must have used a wrong resistor as the brightness only in the
VCA Section of the LEDs is very low. Does anybody know which resistor is reponsible for that?

Other than that again with the LEDs... I have no bleed through from the internal clock (or at least not yet recognized) but all leds are a having a minor bit higher brightness when the led of the internal clock is off.
I wasn't able to find the 47uF Cap in the Finishing up Section. Maybe that's the reason? Where have you located the 47uF?

Thanks for your help! :hyper:
Its expected that the VCA LEDs to be a little dimmer than the others. A quick look at the schematic shows why: this group is the longest single daisy-chain of LEDs (5). It might be balanced out by reducing RLED8 from 220R to 120R or thereabouts. For a test, just clip another 220R resistor across (parallel to) the current one. Otherwise, if you just adjust the overall LED intensity trimmer (the unmarked trimmer next to the Envelope Follower level control), you should find a point where it is not too far out of balance with the rest. Just be aware that the LEDs are power hungry if you turn them up too much.

The 47uF cap goes on the component side of the board amongst the Preamp/Envelope Follower/Ring Modulator parts. Don't feel bad, everyone gets stumped at this step.

By the way, if this is your complete punch list, then you have done an excellent job.
Wired for weird

MarcMooga
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Post by MarcMooga » Thu May 22, 2014 9:43 am

Thank you too flts, also for the detailed explaination.

For the headphone jack I have used a shielded
Sommer Cable SC-Goblin 2x0,14mm².

Regarding the switch I bought at Reichelt Germany the the same size
as per Mouser datasheet.
http://www.reichelt.de/?ARTICLE=108251 ... tAodpncAeg
Mounting Size: 19,2 x 6,8 mm

Thanks again!

:tu:

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Post by MarcMooga » Thu May 22, 2014 10:31 am

Thank you fuzzbass!

Yes that's my whole punch list. But I havn't tested Reverb yet as I have only today received cinch connectors.
To avoid errors I am always measuring/reading EVERY component before soldering.
I had no faults anymore(xoxbox, ambika, MB-6582, almost all yusynth modules, ...) except a cable break since I started working like that. troubleshooting is a pain in the ass especially for me as I am not a pro in electronics.

Where is the schematic? I was searching for that but I wasn't able to find it.

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Post by xpmtl » Thu May 22, 2014 10:31 am

This switch is very tight and you need a bit of brute force to get it in but once engaged, it fits.

Schematic link is in the mail you received from zthee once you paid for the board.

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Post by qp » Thu May 22, 2014 11:41 am

FYI, I just got an EOL notice for the cheaper DC-DC power supply. Looks like an alternative needs to be found regardless.

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Post by Nordcore » Thu May 22, 2014 12:25 pm

Regarding the LEDs: due to the uneven length of the LED chains there is only one dimmer setting possible, where all are equal bright - if the resistors are properly calculated.

Fixing the dimmer to dim all LEDs uniform requires some effort:
- the longest chain with 5 LED must be split. (Two traces to cut, two wires to solder. Resulting in two chains with four LEDs instead of one 5 and one 3. )
- all chains shorter than 4 LEDs get one or two additional orange LEDs in row to the resistor, so all are 4 LEDs long.
- all resistors get the same value (200 to 240 Ohms)

Replace the 1kOhm base resistors (LED-R3, LEDR6) with 100 Ohms. (They are not needed (straight wire would be ok), but having a resistor enables you to measure the base current and gives some fault protection. 1k gives nearly 1V drop, too much for proper current setting with resistors. )

So now all rows have the same current, at *all* dimmer setting (not just at one).
The current can be adjusted to nearly full brightness of the LEDs. (16mA or so. )
The dimmer can be set to all LEDs off.

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elmegil
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Post by elmegil » Thu May 22, 2014 12:40 pm

That needs to go on page 1 :)

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Nordcore
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Post by Nordcore » Thu May 22, 2014 12:50 pm

Are you going to cut traces for that?
I'm a little skeptical that anybody except me will do this mod...

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elmegil
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Post by elmegil » Thu May 22, 2014 1:05 pm

Cutting traces doesn't seem like a big deal, I've done it before.

I have one for me and two to build and sell, I will do the experimenting on mine. Seems like a nice thing to be able to do, if you ask me.

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Nordcore
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Post by Nordcore » Thu May 22, 2014 1:51 pm

Modifications:
Traces to cut:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/birt ... t-leds.jpg

Wires to solder:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/u0ig ... e-leds.jpg

The extra LEDs could be mounted at the resistor positions:
Image

Notes:
a) I put them on the component side so you don't see them through some front panel holes.
b) Sockets are temporary during evaluation.
c) Maybe I'm going to make nice little PCBs for this. (SMD-Parts)
d) if you can't figure out polarity and where to replace the resistor either with a single or a dual LED, ask.

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elmegil
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Post by elmegil » Thu May 22, 2014 2:14 pm

Thanks :)

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