Video feedback - cheap camera options

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

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hewed
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Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by hewed » Wed Mar 10, 2021 7:51 am

I'd like to get a cheap camera for video feedback work through my Roland V-4ex. I've picked up some general tips from ex zee ex's youtube channel, particularly on using digital cameras and making sure you can override automatic focus, but I'm fumbling with duckduckgo searches for recommendations. I'd rather not make a beginners mistake with my purchase.

Does anyone have any recommendations for good, cheap cameras for this work, or a handy link to good info on this topic?
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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by FetidEye » Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:09 am

you can go with several options.

I have used CCD security cameras with good results. make sure you get a lens with it and that it does not have automatic white balance correction.
that level correction is not so great when doing feedback, as it keeps trying to correct the image and by doing so, ruining a stable feedback image.
Get a lens with manual focus . zoom is nice to have, and some control over other features (digital with a menu or analog on the lens)

You can also get a Handycam. make sure it has composite out and enough control over zoom, focus and white balance.

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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by dslocum » Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:18 pm

Cool. Good answers. Same question.

I've got a I'd like to buy a camera, but not sure. I ordered a Panasonic WJ-AVE7 mixer to test out. Should be in a few days.

So need something to plug into this.

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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by studio460 » Mon May 03, 2021 7:35 pm

The AIDA HD-100A industrial block-camera seems the go-to camera for cost-effective, high-quality 1080p60 video and includes a great feature-set for an industrial camera: 1/3' CMOS sensor, HDMI-out, TRS audio-input, interchangeable-lens mount (CS-mount), etc. Sells for just $280 and comes with a 4mm lens (7x crop-factor = 28mm full-frame equivalent). AIDA makes two additional CS-mount lenses with manual-focus/aperture-control, a wide-zoom and a tele-zoom (however, there are no macro lenses available for CS-mount at this time).

For more, go to BHphotovideo.com and drill-down:
Professional Video → Industrial & Multi-Purpose Cameras → filter under "AIDA Imaging."

To see compatible CS-mount lenses, drill-down:
Professional Video → Lenses & Lens Accessories → Industrial Video Lenses → filter under "CS-mount" or "AIDA Imaging."
Last edited by studio460 on Tue May 04, 2021 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by studio460 » Mon May 03, 2021 8:20 pm

Update: While researching an answer to Kent's thread, I stumbled on the Sony HXR-NX100 NXCAM camcorder ($1,498). Its feature-set is nearly identical to the $200 cheaper Sony HXR-MC88 camcorder ($1,298); however, a key difference for video-synthesists in particular is that the NX100 has both an HDMI and a composite-video BNC-output, a pretty rare feature in a modern camcorder.

The NX100 adds another unique feature for a prosumer camcorder: Variable frame-rate from 1fps to 60fps. The MC88 on the other hand boasts a larger 0.43" 2.36-million pixel OLED EVF, while the NX100 is equipped with a smaller 0.24" 1.5-million pixel LCD EVF. Both cameras' flip-out displays are LCD and have the same resolution: 1.5 million pixels. Both cameras have Super16-sized, 1" sensors, relatively large compared with lesser consumer camcorders and the main reason I singled these two models out.

Both units' lenses appear identical: 12x optical-zoom range (29mm to 348mm full-frame equivalent; f/2.8-f4.5 maximum-aperture); though, the NX100 sports a Sony G-series label, while the MX88 wears the more "premium" Zeiss brand (Vario-Sonnar T). Whether there's any actual difference between the two is unknown.

Both models include optical SteadyShot-stabilization, plus dual, full-sized XLR-inputs with available phantom-power; a nice pro-touch. While there are perhaps better values to be had among the many APS-C format (Super35) mirrorless-cameras with interchangeable lenses, these two Sony camcorders pack a ton of features into a pretty affordable package, each well under $2K.
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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by pat » Wed May 05, 2021 12:24 am

+1 for b/w cctv cameras. I ended up having to buy a few on eBay (not really knowing what to look for) and swapped a lens out from one to another to get what I needed. I think I spent around $150 in the learning process.

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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm

Is it possible to burn in the CCD over time with over exposure? If so I would think that the camera should be pulled from a dumpster dive. Spending money on this seems a bit impulsive.
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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by studio460 » Mon May 10, 2021 1:47 pm

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm
Is it possible to burn in the CCD over time with over exposure?
No. Unlike older tube-cameras (e.g., plumbicon, saticon, vidicon), solid-state sensors are immune to burn-in. You can literally shoot the sun with a CCD or CMOS sensor (though not for long due to thermal burn-in; e.g., ants under a magnifying-glass). Below is a high-speed sync shot framing the sun with a Nikon D3s (CMOS):

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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by studio460 » Mon May 10, 2021 9:06 pm

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm
. . . Spending money on this seems a bit impulsive.
Apparently, impulsive is my middle f'ing name. So I just bought three older-generation Sony 1080p60 cameras to feed my ATEM switcher. Then yesterday, I'm looking into a drawer as I try to resurrect my digital-cine rig that I built in 2015, looking for all of its accessories . . . and of course, I find not one, but three cameras capable of shooting HD-video (two Nikon consumer DSLRs and a Nikon 1 mirrorless), all equipped with mini-HDMI outputs! Since my focus was still photography at the time, I never noticed them.

Then, so what I do? Of course, I go on eBay and buy another f'ing camera. But it was a super-deal, too good to pass up—a 4K-capable Sony FS700 which can shoot up to 960fps! Discontinued a few years ago, its original selling price was $7,999, but I found one with only 140 hours for just $1,500!
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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Tue May 11, 2021 9:24 am

Those are like $20 each so basically free-ish
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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by studio460 » Tue May 11, 2021 10:25 am

What's interesting (though, disappointing) about the cheap CCTV camera market is that many of the older composite-only cameras are becoming harder to find. A quick search of eBay/Amazon turns up zillions of PoE and WiFi-enabled HD-CCTV cameras with no composite output.

The better-than-bottom-of-the-line Swann-type cameras are becoming more difficult to find. I still have one pretty good quality color CCTV dome-camera I bought for like $50 a few years ago with a composite-output.
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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by robotfunk » Tue May 11, 2021 1:33 pm

studio460 wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:47 pm
EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 1:31 pm
Is it possible to burn in the CCD over time with over exposure?
No. Unlike older tube-cameras (e.g., plumbicon, saticon, vidicon), solid-state sensors are immune to burn-in. You can literally shoot the sun with a CCD or CMOS sensor (though not for long due to thermal burn-in; e.g., ants under a magnifying-glass). Below is a high-speed sync shot framing the sun with a Nikon D3s (CMOS):

Image
They are not indestructable. Back in my VJ days, a VJ I knew had a very expensive 3CCD camera with burnt in spots from a laser show at a rave he performed at. Later on there was (is?) also the protection scheme in cinemas where CCDs were detected, and zapped with laser, to prevent screeners being recorded.

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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by studio460 » Tue May 11, 2021 4:37 pm

Right. Coherent light is very different than sunlight. I had a Sony BVW400's optical block completely zapped by a laser on the set of the Jennifer Lopez video below (I was shooting behind-the-scenes, but I was basically directly behind the film camera shooting the shot below when it blew). It didn't just create "burn-in," the entire 3CCD array was blown and my EVF turned pure-white. It cost $5,000 to repair. Laser must've hit the sensor for less than a second!

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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by robotfunk » Tue May 11, 2021 5:41 pm

Oops.

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Re: Video feedback - cheap camera options

Post by bitSmasher » Wed May 12, 2021 8:59 pm

Another vote for CCTV camera, preferably from a quality brand like Bosch.
If you want to use the camera with a Eurorack rig, look for models with Sync In - that allows you to sync to the system without needing a TBC and you can even go from BNC to 3.5mm and stick the camera output in to any video module's signal input (not just a specific video input). Good fun!

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