Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Discussion of modular and standalone video generating/processing techniques and associated hardware.

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Tronge
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Tronge » Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:12 am

Got this module on Friday. It’s glorious!

You can tell that it’s a real labour of love from it’s creators.

Well supported too. Please keep up the excellent work!

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Hovercraft
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Hovercraft » Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:24 pm

Structure is awesome--as are Rick and James at ET. They're incredibly responsive to user requests, and they just keep adding functionality. Easily my number one recommendation for anyone getting into video synthesis.

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shreeswifty
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by shreeswifty » Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:34 pm

"i love this machine
more than
your
uncle

walter"

John Cage

noises
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by noises » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:28 am

I'm not that familiar with analog video synthesis.... Is the Structure considered a module that can be used to start with video synthesis as a standalone module? I was looking at the Chromagnon, which looks to be intended as a core stand-alone unit, but I see reports that realistically it will take a very long time to actually be released, so I would like to get a core module that is available more immediately. I'm interested primarily in processing clips, but also overlaying/merging patterns and effects with the clips. It'd also be interesting to experiment with my eurorack interact with the visuals in some subtle manner, but I find it hard in general to watch random shapes pulsate with music.

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Kent
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Kent » Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:50 am

The general answer to your questions is: "Yes, it does all of those things."

• It is a great starting point as 95% of what you will ever NEED (not crave) is there.
• I pulled that 95% number out of my posterior. It's powerful and does a lot.
• It is available TODAY, in stock, at fine retailers near you
• It will save you money in the long and short term as it has so many features in it, that you won't need a bunch of ancillary modules to support it, just to get something interesting going on.
• Your current synth rig can play along with it via the audio & CV inputs
• It has 3 assignable Gate inputs
• All CV inputs are ready for either Eurorack or the 0-1V LZX standard. Per CV input, just slide a front panel switch.
• Within reason, you can load up your own video or still images and play with those.

noises
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by noises » Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:34 am

Thanks for your detailed response. =) Does it need supporting hardware like clocking or genlock type signal generation, or anything else? One observation from skimming the tutorial is it sort of comes off as very "digital" or 90's in its rendering, is there a way internally to get it to have a more old-school 80's analog vibe?

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Kent
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Kent » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:12 am

There is a plethora of videos on YT these days. Watch a bunch of them and you'll get a better idea as to what the device can do and it can do a LOT! It'll also look different upon a CRT screen than the internal monitor.

If you are looking for nostalgic dream-state stuff, you can play with feedback. It features that type of internal functionality as well although you can always do that externally.

noises
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by noises » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:24 am

It looks very interesting. I am searching, but I don't see a ton of vids on this, so it seems this gear is somewhat obscure. Your mentioning of the ability to add video clips is interesting-- the specs show it is somewhat particular in the file format. If any devs are reading, I'd like to suggest adding the ability to add animated gifs to the software, which would really open up some more possibilities for inserting content into the mix.

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Kent
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Kent » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:57 am

In a bit of a rush right now. I'll mention that you can literally add anything by sending anything to the Structure via the Component or Composite input.

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SPIKE the Percussionist
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by SPIKE the Percussionist » Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:10 am

noises wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:24 am
It looks very interesting. I am searching, but I don't see a ton of vids on this, so it seems this gear is somewhat obscure.
if you want to see tons of use...
i use three of them with several other effect things as well.
just scroll through almost any of the vids in this playlist:
(also feel free to ask any other questions that i might be able to help you with)
++

more noiz!

SPIKE the Percussionist

- http://www.manipulate.net -

ASTROGENIC HALLUCINAUTING
CoRE - Constructs of Ritual Evolution
DOGGEBI
Fiddle Witch and the Demons of Doom
morgue city
Unified Space

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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by anomad » Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:25 pm

noises wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:28 am
I'm not that familiar with analog video synthesis.... Is the Structure considered a module that can be used to start with video synthesis as a standalone module? I was looking at the Chromagnon, which looks to be intended as a core stand-alone unit, but I see reports that realistically it will take a very long time to actually be released, so I would like to get a core module that is available more immediately. I'm interested primarily in processing clips, but also overlaying/merging patterns and effects with the clips. It'd also be interesting to experiment with my eurorack interact with the visuals in some subtle manner, but I find it hard in general to watch random shapes pulsate with music.
. hello! i'm James w/Erogenous Tones and i'm half the dev team for Structure.

. I think Structure works well as a stand alone unit, or as part of a larger video rig. it will generate visuals from GLSL shaders, 3D objects, images, Python (via Cairo2D), and others - and these can be modulated by Eurorack 5v, LZX 1v, audio, MIDI, and/or our recently added new internal modulators of LFOs, Envelops, and Math (where you can apply basic mathematic functions to modulation inputs). it can also take LZX 1v R/G/B video signals or the standard RCA. It has two RCA video outputs (mirrored).

. the modulators often go beyond changing just size or scale. check out our GLSL shader repo at http://glsl.erogenous-tones.com - click on one of the images (or click through a few pages of shaders) - then manipulate the three sliders in the upper left part of the window to get an idea what could be modulated for that generator.

. if you had a way of sending clips/video to Structure's video in, then you can apply all sorts of effects and alterations to the incoming video.

---
" Does it need supporting hardware like clocking or genlock type signal generation, or anything else? One observation from skimming the tutorial is it sort of comes off as very "digital" or 90's in its rendering, is there a way internally to get it to have a more old-school 80's analog vibe?"

. you only need a clock/genlock if you're using LZX gear. i usually run my Structure through a BPMC Fluxus when i'm looking for a little more retro feel - or record to VHS, then playback and capture the monitor output via cell phone/camera - rather than Blackmagic Intensity Shuttle capture device direct to disk.

---
" I am searching, but I don't see a ton of vids on this, so it seems this gear is somewhat obscure. Your mentioning of the ability to add video clips is interesting-- the specs show it is somewhat particular in the file format. If any devs are reading, I'd like to suggest adding the ability to add animated gifs to the software, which would really open up some more possibilities for inserting content into the mix."

. here's a link to the Structure playlist - that covers the original release up to the v3.4 firmware.

. another link I came across recently was from MADI as they described how they approached using Structure for a music video -

. the video clip format is only MJPEG A -
* The two possible resolutions of the clips are 320×240 or 640×480 (and only one size active at a time)
* 320×240 allows 1600 frames total
* 640×480 allows 400 frames total
* Maximum clip length can be set in SYSTEM menu (like 20 frames per video)
* Maximum of 16 clips supported

. the reason is we need to keep them uncompressed and not use too much memory.

. i think we have Animated GIFs in the list of 'tech to see how it might fit' list :)

. let me know if you have any other questions :)

noises
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by noises » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:03 am

anomad wrote:
Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:25 pm
- hello! i'm James w/Erogenous Tones and i'm half the dev team for Structure.
Thanks for the answers to my questions! I am very interested in being able to launch GIFs so it is good to hear it is on a list of potential features to add. Adding them and being able to manipulate them could take out having the need for a separate machine. A friend had made some software for launching GIFs and mixing/manipulating them, but it is no longer supported.

One other thing I am wondering is when is it anticipated that the RPi 4 compute module update will be available?

Thanks!

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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Marizu » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 am

noises wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:34 am
it sort of comes off as very "digital" or 90's in its rendering, is there a way internally to get it to have a more old-school 80's analog vibe?
I'd agree that most of the shaders do have a somewhat "digital" aesthetic, but there are definitely some that are more "analogue" in their sensibilities.
You can also program your own analogue style shaders. I use Structure as part of a larger LZX system, so I can easily soften the harder edges of some of the shaders, and make them feel more organic by using additional processing.
One of my favourite things is to run the signals through analogue audio filters.

noises
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by noises » Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:28 am

Marizu wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 am
One of my favourite things is to run the signals through analogue audio filters.
That sounds interesting, can you elaborate what signals you run through audio filters?

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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by Marizu » Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:40 am

noises wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:28 am
Marizu wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:38 am
One of my favourite things is to run the signals through analogue audio filters.
That sounds interesting, can you elaborate what signals you run through audio filters?
Sure.
Typically, I convert the output from Structure to component video and the take it in to my Visual Cortex.
From there, I have R, G, B and brightness (luma) outputs.
As the sync signals have been stripped out of these (and are being re-distributed as needed by the Cortex).
The Cortex is a bit picky about the inputs that it will take. It can't output colour from a composite signal input.

These separated signals can be processed however you like because you won't prevent the monitor from syncing because the sync signals are stripped out and recombined at the Cortex output.
Audio processors, like filters and VCA's, don't have the bandwidth to process a video signal, so they tend to smear it in various ways. You may consider some of these ways to be aesthetically pleasing. Typically, I re-combine the original signal with the smeared version. There are many ways to do this in the Cortex, so you could create things like smeared colour shifts.
Interestingly, some audio modules (like the DPW Limit) seem to be able to work reasonably at video rate.

I have a couple of pieces in this (from 24:00) that utilise audio filters in this way. The third piece is just feedback.
The first piece takes a Structure shader (with the rising globe) and re-processes it in the analogue realm (including posterising it using Castle modules and running it through an audio filter).
The visual characteristics of something that has been run through audio modules would be low detail, smearing and possible ringing to the right.
In these cases, I have also mixed in the original signal so that I can still retain the forms.

Hope that is useful.


noises
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Re: Erogenous Tones - STRUCTURE

Post by noises » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:59 am

Marizu wrote:
Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:40 am
Hope that is useful.
Yes, that's very helpful and learned something about video signal processing. Thanks.

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