No Ctrl alternatives

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minimal_modular
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No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:51 am

Greetings.

My modest system comprises of a No Coast, Strega, and No Crtl, with an iPad for reverb/processing.

As I predominantly compose drones, with minimal melodic content - at most, perhaps a 3-4 note motif that appears sporadically - I am finding that the No Ctrl is simply too much. Sequencing seems to be of little interest to myself, and while I appreciate the flexibility of the controller, most of it is not necessary for what I enjoy doing. I do, however, like the tactile nature of the touch plates, as well at the CV more/less skin produces.

As such, I am looking for an alternative, and am open to suggestion. Ideally it would fit into a 4ms Pod 20, as that seems to be the most economical way to house eurorack, and perhaps would have a little room left over to add a modulation source - wanting to add a few long duration smooth LFOs to create movement in my patches.

Thanks!
Last edited by minimal_modular on Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Spifcore
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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by Spifcore » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:57 am

What about a 4ms Pod 26 with a Pressure Points and a Div Kid Ochd? That would also leave you 2hp for some sort of utility or whatever else you may want.

I feel like pressure points is the same idea as 0-ctrl but cheaper and not as focused on sequencing.

Edit: I think 2hp Loop could be a cool addition to a drone rig if you aren't needing any other utility.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:06 pm

Spifcore wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:57 am
and a Div Kid Ochd?
Oddly, the Ochd is one of my top choices for modulation. My only hesitation was the triangle waveform, as I don't want the point where rise/fall meets to be noticeable. However, there doesn't seem to be LFOs with as much flexibility and power as the Ochd using sines. And I'd need to use one of the 'X' series of Pods, as my local retailer is telling me the Ochd is too deep to fit into the regular Pod (if anyone has tried and succeeded, please let me know). This would put me into 34hp territory - dangerously close to actually having a eurorack system!

And I didn't even think about a Pressure Points! :doh:
Last edited by minimal_modular on Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by Spifcore » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:14 pm

Yea I think Ochd is great for drone modulation, especially if you want something small to throw in a 4ms pod. It sounds really smooth in divkids video of it, so I wouldn't worry about the triangles vs sine personally.

And yea pressure points isn't the smallest module but it would allow you to do your 3-4 note motifs and keep your dynamic touch plates. Seems like the perfect fit to me.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by Spifcore » Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:16 pm

Ahhh, I was just about to check the depth, that's a shame. Yea that would quickly take you out of minimal territory, lol.

Edit: I actually just checked and it looks like the Ochd is 32mm and the 4ms Pod 26 is 34mm. Not a lot of breathing room but it should fit I think. However the 2hp module I was thinking about is definitely off the table (its 40mm+).

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by robotfunk » Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:56 pm

In the past I was worried about hearing the edginess of the triangle wave as well, but in practice the sine wave has a much larger problem, in the middle the slope up or down is so steep that the values in the middle are over in no time, and the majority of time is spent near the extremes, whereas with a triangle the time is equally divided over the shape.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Wed Apr 28, 2021 3:52 pm

robotfunk wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:56 pm
In the past I was worried about hearing the edginess of the triangle wave as well, but in practice the sine wave has a much larger problem, in the middle the slope up or down is so steep that the values in the middle are over in no time, and the majority of time is spent near the extremes, whereas with a triangle the time is equally divided over the shape.
Appreciate that! The Ochd is all but purchased - keeps my system analog, and the functionality in such a small package is unmatched.

Anyone want to buy a No Ctrl? :hihi:
Last edited by minimal_modular on Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by starthief » Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:13 pm

The touchplates on the 0-Ctrl work far better for me than the two Pressure Points I tried. Even if I decided I'd never use the sequencing again, I'd keep it just for that.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:43 pm

starthief wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:13 pm
The touchplates on the 0-Ctrl work far better for me than the two Pressure Points I tried. Even if I decided I'd never use the sequencing again, I'd keep it just for that.
Mind elaborating?

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by moremagic » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:00 pm

starthief wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:13 pm
The touchplates on the 0-Ctrl work far better for me than the two Pressure Points I tried. Even if I decided I'd never use the sequencing again, I'd keep it just for that.
just curious if that was with or without adjusting the sensisitivity

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by starthief » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:38 pm

In winter when humidity and my skin were at their driest, I could only get PP to register touches at all if I licked my fingers first. Forget about any control with pressure. I've never had any trouble at all with 0-Ctrl though.

I might not have ever tried adjusting the sensitivity, I don't recall knowing that it even had an adjustment. It's possible that would have helped. :| Anyway, I like all of 0-Ctrl's features so it's a moot point...

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by Joe. » Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:56 pm

minimal_modular wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:06 pm
My only hesitation was the triangle waveform, as I don't want the point where rise/fall meets to be noticeable. However, there doesn't seem to be LFOs with as much flexibility and power as the Ochd using sines.
robotfunk wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 1:56 pm
In the past I was worried about hearing the edginess of the triangle wave as well, but in practice the sine wave has a much larger problem, in the middle the slope up or down is so steep that the values in the middle are over in no time, and the majority of time is spent near the extremes, whereas with a triangle the time is equally divided over the shape.
The shapes of waveforms can always be modified, and the most common tool is a 'slew' or 'slope' generator. There is a huge range in Eurorack as it's a fundamental module, you can even find them in 2hp formats.

To say they can smooth out a waveform wouldn't really do them justice, the types of modification they can provide is enormous. Complexity can be further expanded with slews that have voltage control over rise/fall times, or the shape of rise/fall of voltages passing through them.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by Wavtekt » Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:05 pm

VCV Rack -> MIDI-CV module + MIDI knob & pad controllers

I think it is one of the most flexible options out there. You can feed pitch CV / gate / custom signals like envelope to Eurorack using VCV Rack

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:48 pm

Joe. wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:56 pm
Complexity can be further expanded with slews that have voltage control over rise/fall times, or the shape of rise/fall of voltages passing through them.
Indeed, looking for modulation options beyond the slope/contour/LFO/noise of the No Coast, and Agitation function of Strega - good to know!
Wavtekt wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 8:05 pm
VCV Rack -> MIDI-CV module + MIDI knob & pad controllers
I think it is one of the most flexible options out there. You can feed pitch CV / gate / custom signals like envelope to Eurorack using VCV Rack
Keeping away from computers/MIDI - nice, simple, hands on workflow for myself, for the time being.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by Noct » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:52 pm

I’m putting together almost the exact system you’re describing. Make Noise Powered Skiff, Strega, 2xPressure Points, Brains, Teleplexer, and OCHD.

There is so much you can coax out of this small system and if you’re budget minded, adding an SQ-1 will open even more doors from the Strega and throw in some stackable cables too.

Have fun, it’s a great synth.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:56 pm

Noct wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:52 pm
Have fun, it’s a great synth.
I know! Check out my signature, the combo is so much fun.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by Noct » Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:04 pm

Don’t overlook how much the teleplexer opens up the Strega. For such a low cost, it turns it into Strega+.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by pugix » Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:20 pm

minimal_modular wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:06 pm
Spifcore wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:57 am
and a Div Kid Ochd?
Oddly, the Ochd is one of my top choices for modulation. My only hesitation was the triangle waveform, as I don't want the point where rise/fall meets to be noticeable. However, there doesn't seem to be LFOs with as much flexibility and power as the Ochd using sines.
Put an Instruo tanh[3] next to the Ochd and you have three channels of manual waveshaping for triangles. Tune to a sine shape as you wish. Square it up. Distort it.

https://www.modulargrid.net/e/instruo-tanh-3
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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by indigoid » Sat May 01, 2021 8:38 am

Noct wrote:
Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:52 pm
I’m putting together almost the exact system you’re describing. Make Noise Powered Skiff, Strega, 2xPressure Points, Brains, Teleplexer, and OCHD.
add another Brains?

my #1 wishlist item for the Make Noise system is a revised Brains that lets you switch between 8 steps or 2x4 steps
Zap him again! ZAP THE SONOFABITCH AGAIN!

minimal_modular
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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Sat May 01, 2021 9:02 am

pugix wrote:
Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:20 pm
Put an Instruo tanh[3] next to the Ochd and you have three channels of manual waveshaping for triangles. Tune to a sine shape as you wish. Square it up. Distort it.
https://www.modulargrid.net/e/instruo-tanh-3
Nice! Getting closer to actually having to commit to a case; loving my minimal No Coast/Strega set-up, but...

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by EATyourGUITAR » Sun May 02, 2021 8:17 am

if you tune pressure points to be sensitive to gates, then you lose the range of continuous pressure cv. if you tune for pressure points for good cv range, it will never trigger gates at all.
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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Sun May 02, 2021 10:11 am

EATyourGUITAR wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 8:17 am
if you tune pressure points to be sensitive to gates, then you lose the range of continuous pressure cv. if you tune for pressure points for good cv range, it will never trigger gates at all.
Appreciate the information.

I went back and listened to some of my music that used the No Ctrl - thinking that keeping it may be my best option.

I don't need to use it all the time, yet for pitch based material, it seems to be the ideal choice.

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Re: No Ctrl alternatives

Post by minimal_modular » Tue May 04, 2021 5:11 pm

Edit: redundant.

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