Wavefolder/Lpg with Q filterboard for gotharman instrument

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meska
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Wavefolder/Lpg with Q filterboard for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

Scroll down for phaser post
27/04: LPG circuit is finish scroll down for final demo
Here a quick demo of the prototype of wavefolder/resonant LPG i'm working on for gotharman instrument, it will be compatible with all gotharman instrument who have analog filter board slote.
I starte to thinking about this since the first day of the LD3, it can prodiuce complex sound and it add many possibility in therm of sound designe to have more organique filtering.And i fuck$ing love the sound of a wave folder for bass/sub.
So i build this board for add this possibility to my LD3 :hihi:


Actualy it's a 3 stage of wavefolder and it will be 4 or 6 depend of the place on the board (4 look more realistic)
wave folder is obviviously beford the LPG
here another video of a previous prototype showing the lpg quickly triged:



for now it have 3 controle :
offset the gate
resonance
wavefolding

it's not impossible i will add some function (like can be switch in HP)
don't forget it's vactrole so all board will sithly sound and respond deferently (eg parrallel processing when using 2 board is possible but you have a big chance the 2 chanel have diferente respond)
and the "cut off" point is actualy in between 200 and 350 value (max value is 0 to 500 on the LD3) due to vactrole and i'm not shure if they are any possibility to fix it in hardware for have longeur sweetpote. [EDIT] i'm working on that ! (solved actully) :


the layout of the circuit is near from finish even if have have to select more precisely some parts, like get ride of ceramic capacitore, limiting the overdrive at max resonance [allready done], filtering some noise ect
i will post more demo when i will recieve some part and i can upbdate the prototype

if you have some question or sugestion about the designe feel free to ask
If some of you are interest by this filter board, tell me here, i thinck i will start by building 10 of this.
expect price range like gotharman filter board (need to finish selecting parts beford )


Give to you'r gotharman instrument the west coast sound :hihi: :roll:
Last edited by meska on Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:19 am, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by flx »

So cool! I was thinking about guitar distortion effects and a LPG too, after the filter board specs were released. So I’m really happy that you’re actually creating such a project :) I would definitely be interested in a board. Sounds great already!

P.S. Do you already know where to get the angled connectors for the filter boards?
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

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flx wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:27 am P.S. Do you already know where to get the angled connectors for the filter boards?
Juste put the reference in Google :p
i buy it from a deutch compagnie if i remenber corectly but mousser have them
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by gotharman »

Really nice project! Sounds great! Can't wait to try this on my LD3 :hihi:

Thank you very much for working on this!
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by Fsuchs »

Mezka, Tu gères sévère !! Sounds really good :)
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by flx »

Meska, did you find out already which parameters inside the LD3 will control what things on the filter board pins? Also, are the G-Ray features available?
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

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flx wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:05 pm Meska, did you find out already which parameters inside the LD3 will control what things on the filter board pins? Also, are the G-Ray features available?
i'm not shure to understand ?
you mean the pin out of the Filter board conector ? (they are on the filter board PDF)

for now the filter board is in proto phase, so only breboard using th cv out of the LD3 for controling it (internal control of the ld3 filterboard are the same as the CV out 0to5v) i waiting some part for finishing the board and teste it with internal LD3 control.


if you talk about the corelation of the Peak and the cutt of parameter possible, but using peaks option on the Gray page , i'm thinking about how i can make somthing usfull with that. tomorow i have plan to try another circuit (possible adition to the actual board ;)

i have not tested the Gray feature of the LD3 for now cose i have no filter board ^^
i will see that in the futur of this filterboard creation, as i understand it, the Gray is a circuit (or IC idk) on the analog board use for feedback the filterboard, it's not on the filter board. perhaps if Flemming see this it can confirm or clarify this point .
any way i will inverstigate ;)
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by flx »

meska wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 2:41 pm you mean the pin out of the Filter board conector ? (they are on the filter board PDF)
Thanks! I meant the software parameters that correspond to the pins. E.g. peaks, mix, etc. I still need to order the connectors, but I got a Teensy + Audio Shield today, which I’d like to play with for a possible filter board development.
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

On the PDF you can see you have only 4 parameter available for controling the filterboard with cv (and 3 more for switch)
and they have name : fee /reso/cut/peaks i have no tested yes but i'm shure it corespond to the parameter on the vcf page :mrgreen:


Mix is not a controle ârameter (CF manual page 129) it's a analog board featur, mixing the 2 output of the analog filterboard so it depend how you designe you'r filterboard !check the manual on analog filterboard parameter page 128/129 on my manual (outdated printed one :p)
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by Exiannyc »

Hello Meska I'm interested. I have a TLD. Is the filterboard the same as for the LD3?

I have never tried changing out my VCF2 board.
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

Exiannyc wrote: Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:57 pm Hello Meska I'm interested. I have a TLD. Is the filterboard the same as for the LD3?

I have never tried changing out my VCF2 board.
TLD need special conectore if i understand corectly but, use the same spec so apsolutly no probleme it will be compatible ;)
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

Juste a raw teste of a vactrol phaser ;)


As i post this i have allready improve the designe, vactrol phaser can be a things.
next big step: try to improve led responce for incrase sweetpot, by offseting and change the voltage range feeding to the led, it open many new way to "match" vactrol using trimer ect !

Add a vactrole phaser to the curent Wavefolder/lpg is possible (only the size of the vactrole is the limiting factore, they are big and eatch stage of the phaser need one ( and i allready need >4 vactrol for the wavefolder and the LPG)
Another limitation is the 4 cv control (and 3 switch) we have between the gotharman instrument and the filterboard.
so i can't make a board with 5 parameter like this:
-wavefolder
-phase
-feedback of the phaser
-offset LPG
-lpgQ
one need to go,. One solution is to make the wavefolder responding to signal input amplitude so you will wavefolde the signal usinge tha Level of the part. Or juste build another board ^^ (if 12 stage vatrol phaser is not to big for a single board i will try separate filterboard)
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by flx »

So cool!

Regarding the 5+ parameters, I had the following ideas. Either have the phaser and wavefolder/lpg in parallel, with the 4 parameters going to each and the mix parameter letting you fade/switch between the two signals.

Or use one of the three switches somehow. E.g. make one switch switch the “cutoff” CV parameter between wavefolder and phase, holding the other parameter which is currently not controlled.
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

flx wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:13 pm So cool!

Regarding the 5+ parameters, I had the following ideas. Either have the phaser and wavefolder/lpg in parallel, with the 4 parameters going to each and the mix parameter letting you fade/switch between the two signals.
the audio output are at the end of the board so it(s cool idea but it will need to make 2LPG
flx wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 3:13 pm Or use one of the three switches somehow. E.g. make one switch switch the “cutoff” CV parameter between wavefolder and phase, holding the other parameter which is currently not controlled.
Hmmm idk how it's possible to do that without any IC and programing and it's not realy my cup of tee ^^( no competence :p)
and it will no work with modulation for all parameter at the same time, that is a serious limiation for wavefolder/phaser
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Re: Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

20210420_120512.jpg
preparing proto board 01 :hyper:
still waiting film capacitore..... for make final testing of the LPG,
i'm actualy working on the offset/voltage range of the CV going to the LED for better "sweet pot"

AND.
i make a 8 stage vactrole phaser on breboard i will post demo soon :sb:
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Re: [+ Vactrol phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

Here it is :

so 8 stage (but not a limitation) vactrol phaser i gonna make a big vactrole phaser board proto and i will see how many stage and feature i could pack .
For now 2 control:
phase
feedback

One big improvment can be selecting feedback (resonance) pathbetween stage swith digi_switch

there is a world where it's possible to make a phaser + lpg without wave folding, but for now i gonna make 1 filterboard wavefolding +lpg and another phaser board. tell me if what you prefer :)
Once again i'm still waiting filme capacitor & resistore now ^^

in all the design , they have sithly dirty resonance, that can be change easly if you like more cleaner resonance ;) it's like moving diod and change 1 or 2 trimer pots value .
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by flx »

Phew! This sound so good! Are you using only one digi switch or all three? With all three and a binary switching IC you could route the feedback to all eight vactrols then.

I currently can’t decide which filterboard I’d prefer. I like them both and wish for a deFormer with like 10 filterboard slots :D
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

flx wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:09 pm With all three and a binary switching IC you could route the feedback to all eight vactrols then.
that the idea but for now i have never try the switch ect ^^
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

LPG is FINISH :)
here a sound demo :

big improvment on the offset "sweetpot"
resonance is inverted (0 is full 511 is no Q) here again the controle is not the full knob but you have an "okay" range (due to vactrole OFC ^^)
i'm realy happy with how it sound ;)

Now waiting part for finish the Wavolfer.
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

News about the Wavefolder side:


it need fine tune but i'm on the way ;)
today i juste build the lpg circuit on proto pcb, testing tomorow ;)
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »

proto 1 AKA L'abomination, but it work very well ^^ (lpg side only)


To do list on next proto: improv signal layout :lol: :lol:
if you look carrefuly, you can see 2 empty nodes, they are for BP and HP input, i'm not shure of keeping the BP ( not so intersting in therm of sonority) but thay are a big chance next ubdate will be a multimode gate ;) !!
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by flx »

Looking forward to the next audio demos! Your videos sound great!
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by Exiannyc »

I'm excited about this too. Thanks for expanding the possibilities!
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Re: [+ Vactrole phaser] Wavefolder/Lpg with Q for gotharman instrument

Post by meska »


So,
first i will slow down the filter board devlopment simply because i'm now waiting some switch for finishing it.( we talk about 20/30day)
Another things, if you look on the LD3 screen you can see the filterboard parameter:

Cutoff/offset Wavefold Resonance
LPG/HP Slope Fold Mix (wrong labeled actualy ^^)



(wave fold is in segond possition simply because we can use some LD3 option to have interaction between offset frequency and the quantity of fold ! . see PEAKS Option in the LD3 MANUAL)
wavefolder side like simple wavefome on input (specialy sine and triangle) but you can try with polyphonie or sample but be prepart for unexpected result ;)

All the switch option are PLANED but not tested for now:
LPG/HP switch between LPG and HP
Slope: change the capacitor of the LPG, that will change the slop of the LPG/HP, it's vactrole so don't expect to much linear&regulars (like 12/24db) slope but it will sound nice ;p
Fold: enable/disable the fold section beford the LPG, the wavefolder design will NOT be 100% transparent, with fold value at 0,due to the filtering the noisy transistore need ^^ so it's great to have an option to disable it if you whant feed the lpg with unfolded signal.
Mix: mix between output 1 & 2 from the filter board, actualy they are the same, you can use LD3 option for inverting OUT2 for interesting effect (cf manual!)
tremblap wrote: In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
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