Starting 5U in 2021

Moog, Synthesizers.com, MOTM, Modcan, Moon and others..... Go big!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
maciej83
Common Wiggler
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:39 pm
Location: Poland

Starting 5U in 2021

Post by maciej83 » Sun May 02, 2021 3:10 pm

Hi guys, after many years in other formats I'm thinking of going 5U this year and I would really love to hear the voice of some experienced users...

I've been always in love with these huge Moog systems, both in terms of sound and esthetics. I wonder what would be the best path to follow in 2021. What would be your choices? Which company's case is reliable and universal in terms of use? I prefer this studio furniture style rather than tolex or rack. I like Dotcom cabinets, but it might be problematic to get this stuff in Europe. Also, are there cabinets available in Europe with the space for these smaller half-size modules? I've seen tolex ones only. Any diy users selling cabinets like in other formats?

What about the modules? Considering I'm in Europe Moon and Synth-Werk come to my mind after some research, especially the latter in terms of "moogish" style. Is any of these companies considered to be superior in your opinion? Any other company with full range of modules here? Dotcom of course, but it is overseas..
I thought that maybe it would be good to go with Moon or Synth-Werk with the sound and Dotcom with control (cheaper even after importing here)? I'm surely after one of these big sequencers. I'd like to build 2-3 voices plus one of the sequencers to control the stuff.

I wonder if Moog is going to sell individual modules at some point, but that's another topic.

Any insight would be appreciated, thank you in advance for your time and advice!

User avatar
Notron fn
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Olympia

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by Notron fn » Sun May 02, 2021 3:48 pm

Oakley (assembled by Krisp1) and Corsynth also make some tasty modules. Perhaps you could locate a woodworker to build a cabinet.

I live stateside and had a fellow put together a 44 space cab for me, then I mounted a psu from .com, but it would have been fairly easy to put the parts together w of the shelf components.
Insert pithy statement here

User avatar
peabreu
Common Wiggler
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by peabreu » Sun May 02, 2021 4:23 pm

You also have the Moon racks and cases.

User avatar
maciej83
Common Wiggler
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:39 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by maciej83 » Sun May 02, 2021 4:44 pm

peabreu wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 4:23 pm
You also have the Moon racks and cases.
Sure, but quite limited in terms of dimensions. The same is with Synth-Werk - one size apparently.

Kawouddd
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 835
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:09 am

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by Kawouddd » Sun May 02, 2021 4:50 pm

DIYing it, and aware this is a terrible and unforgivable question, how much would a respectable starter 5U system set *cough* someone back?

I have fallen in love with my soldering iron and it may take me places.

Dilibob
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 257
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2018 1:52 pm

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by Dilibob » Sun May 02, 2021 5:06 pm

I love my .com system, I do have a hw eurorack but barely use it. I find I can do anything I need in eurorack on vcvrack or the native instruments stack.Only reason for me to use hw eurorack is if I need that tactile feel, but I get that through .com when I get that need. Really 98% of all the music I produce is ITB, so eurorack vs 5u is more of an aesthetic decision rather than anything else.

User avatar
Notron fn
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Olympia

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by Notron fn » Sun May 02, 2021 5:28 pm

As far as sequencers go, right now I’m using a Cirklon and a Five12 Vector mainly. I also have an GRP R24 for something format appropriate, but right now, I’m really liking the accessibility + feature depth of the modern units.
Insert pithy statement here

User avatar
maciej83
Common Wiggler
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:39 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by maciej83 » Sun May 02, 2021 5:34 pm

Notron fn wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:28 pm
As far as sequencers go, right now I’m using a Cirklon and a Five12 Vector mainly. I also have an GRP R24 for something format appropriate, but right now, I’m really liking the accessibility + feature depth of the modern units.
I have Cirklon as well and it would be interfaced for sure, but sometimes it's great and creative to play the big knobs!

User avatar
EPTC
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1524
Joined: Thu May 14, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Austin TX
Contact:

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by EPTC » Sun May 02, 2021 6:37 pm

maciej83 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:34 pm
Notron fn wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:28 pm
I also have an GRP R24 for something format appropriate
I have Cirklon as well and it would be interfaced for sure, but sometimes it's great and creative to play the big knobs!
Just emphasizing one piece of gear you missed in Notron fn's comment. R24 would be your ticket! Amazing 5U sequencer.

kdjupdal
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 280
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:44 am
Location: Norway

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by kdjupdal » Mon May 03, 2021 7:57 am

maciej83 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 3:10 pm
I've been always in love with these huge Moog systems, both in terms of sound and esthetics. I wonder what would be the best path to follow in 2021. What would be your choices?
Maybe it's an idea to decide if you want a Moog clone, or just a modular in MU/5U format. See the "list of 5u manufacturers".

Moog clones:
- Club of the Knobs
- Moslab
- Synth-Werk
- obviously Moog

MU format synth: You can get a full range of modules from these brands:
- Moon
- Synthesizers.com
- Krisp1 / Oakley
- Corsynth
- and check out Lower West Side Studio who offer many DIY brands as finished modules.

In my opinion Oakley is one of the best in terms of sound, but also quite expensive. Moon has some really interesting sequencer modules. And Synthesizers.com has clones of the Moog sequencer modules. You can easily mix and match.

User avatar
robotmakers
Veteran Wiggler
Posts: 671
Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2010 10:52 am
Location: New York, NY

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by robotmakers » Mon May 03, 2021 10:05 am

I wouldn't hold your breath for Moog to sell individual modules. Have been trying for years to no avail. Also, the power connectors and voltages on true Moog modules are completely different and really bespoke. Synth-werk is the ultimate Moog clone. Moon has never really tried to be a Moog clone, at least in terms of sound. They do have a Moog style ladder filter, but if you're after a "cost is no object" Moog clone, Synth-werk is the way to go. Moslab is also an excellent Moog clone, and tastes may vary beyond that.

Best regards,
Roger

User avatar
maciej83
Common Wiggler
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:39 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by maciej83 » Mon May 03, 2021 2:17 pm

kdjupdal wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 7:57 am
Maybe it's an idea to decide if you want a Moog clone, or just a modular in MU/5U format.
Valid point. I think at first I'd like to get the Moog clone. After that I might want to go elsewhere, but I already know some power differences may occur, which is kinda stressing.

Somehow overlooked the Mos-Lab! :hmm: Any other opinions on Mos-Lab vs Synth-Werk? The latter looks more convincing to me and has more modules to choose from, but it is just an impression basing on their websites. I know there is some difference in power, is it PITA to interface these two?

User avatar
winn3r
Common Wiggler
Posts: 226
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2018 8:21 am
Location: NYC

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by winn3r » Mon May 03, 2021 2:53 pm

I agree, SYNTH-WERK is the way to go if you want the most authentic clones. The build quality on my SW system is better than on my Moog reissue and their customer support cannot be beat (especially compared to Moog's these days :mad:). Also, SW can build you a wood or tolex case of any size if you ask.

Mos-Lab is great, however some of their modules have small differences that you may or may not like. For example, the 921B has a switch to disconnect it from the 921A instead of the standard weak/strong synch. Their 914 FFB is built without inductors, unlike the pricier Moog and SW versions which use the traditional way.

dialekt
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:25 pm
Location: ECFU!

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by dialekt » Tue May 04, 2021 2:30 am

winn3r wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:53 pm
I agree, SYNTH-WERK is the way to go if you want the most authentic clones. The build quality on my SW system is better than on my Moog reissue and their customer support cannot be beat (especially compared to Moog's these days :mad:). Also, SW can build you a wood or tolex case of any size if you ask.
Authentic as in? The build quality is very good on SW but the new Moog modulars are built just like the originals. SW uses mail order green standard PCBs. Alpha pots. All WIMA capacitors. All metal film resistors. Sure it looks pretty and the modules are heavy thanks to the steel shells but they are all very standard parts. Moog uses etched boards just like in the originals. SW sine wave on the 901 and 921 is very close to the originals. The Moog sine wave is spot on to the originals. Gene Stopp who is the lead engineer for the modular department is likely the most qualified person alive to hold that position. They are built like the originals with all of the same part numbers from lineage manufacturers and also use NOS parts when Gene could source them for the individual runs. I don't say this with any disrespect to SW but Gerhard is nowhere near that level. I like my SW modules don't get me wrong they are of good quality. But they are nothing close to Moog. The Moogs sound better, they feel better. And they are far more expensive. I don't think the extra price is worth it for the Moogs when all the cloner options are a fractions of the price and the modules can be had individually. Not to mention the Moog stuff is all limited run so you will have a hard time finding one. Don't even understand why people even buy those big hunks of junk with SW blazing on the scene.

I've been a Moog / Big Briar customer since around the time Bob moved to Asheville and have never had any issues with their customer support. You can call, email, or walk right in if you are close enough and they will do you solid. Last time I was there in person I just walked in. They serviced my Taurus that day. In and out.

I would be interested to hear your experiences that lead to your issues with Moog.
winn3r wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 2:53 pm

Mos-Lab is great, however some of their modules have small differences that you may or may not like. For example, the 921B has a switch to disconnect it from the 921A instead of the standard weak/strong synch. Their 914 FFB is built without inductors, unlike the pricier Moog and SW versions which use the traditional way.
If you have ever ordered from Seb you would know he offers the option for either switch on the 921B. If you buy your modules second hand you get what you get. My Mos Lab 921ABBB has synch switching on the oscillators. Seb also will wind inductors for your 914 too at a price if you request it. Mos Lab actually uses closer parts to the original Moog stuff than SW. They aren't as deep as SW either. But Seb seems to have taken the last year off so you may not even be able to place a direct order. Fun game to play.

Synthoholic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:03 pm

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by Synthoholic » Tue May 04, 2021 12:04 pm

Seb hasn't taken the last year off. He's been cloning the Arp 2500 and the EMU.

User avatar
diller
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:39 am
Location: Prescott

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by diller » Tue May 04, 2021 1:46 pm

Synthoholic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:04 pm
Seb hasn't taken the last year off. He's been cloning the Arp 2500 and the EMU.
I think they maybe mean from filling orders but this is the best synth news I've not read anywhere else. EMU :hyper: Do you know if he is doing the Kobol again too?

User avatar
bwhittington
Terrifying Brain Secret
Posts: 5856
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 11:48 pm
Contact:

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by bwhittington » Tue May 04, 2021 3:25 pm

diller wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:46 pm
Synthoholic wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:04 pm
Seb hasn't taken the last year off. He's been cloning the Arp 2500 and the EMU.
I think they maybe mean from filling orders but this is the best synth news I've not read anywhere else. EMU :hyper:
No kidding!
:jawdrop:


User avatar
maciej83
Common Wiggler
Posts: 74
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 2:39 pm
Location: Poland

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by maciej83 » Tue May 04, 2021 4:39 pm

Ok, let's get back to the topic maybe :party: 8-)
dialekt wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 2:30 am
I've been a Moog / Big Briar customer since around the time Bob moved to Asheville
You seem to have come across both companies (SW and M-L) and perhaps more, what would you choose or recommend?

Any other inputs? Thank you all for responding so far. I am still 2-3 months away from ordering first modules, so have time to think, but more opinions would be great!

User avatar
josaka
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 2:00 am
Location: london

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by josaka » Tue May 04, 2021 5:09 pm

I have both systems.. SW/ML.. (ML921) a little different from SW921..
think the SW have gone the whole hog.. but ML are great too(the recent ML 901 are exact clones like the SW (MK are 1969 osc the sw are the 1964 osc apparently.. (ML 921 has just small updates (hard sync option)
SW are built like tanks and they all sound great.. gerhard(SW) is great to deal with(apart from one issue)
Seb can be a little aloof.. not dealt with him for a few years though..
on the Emu/2500 I dont think he will be doing those it was a personal project just for him (maybe plus a 2500 or two for rich folk)
seems more likely to do some PPG or polykobol ...thats not based in fact just reading between the lines a bit.

User avatar
Notron fn
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 268
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:25 pm
Location: Olympia

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by Notron fn » Tue May 04, 2021 8:46 pm

In terms of realizing the Moog sound, I guess there’s also the question of what is essential.

904a ladder VCFs
The CP3 mixer
Raucous 901 VCOs
The VCAs and envelopes?

With both Moog and SW, they hew to the original design choices that can waste a lot of panel space. In the space of a traditional 904a filter, I can fit a grove gms-294a clone and an Oakley journeyman. So while the generous knob spacing and big panels of old school 5u can be wonderful, it’s also nice to have a few dense modules as well.

Thankfully most 5u modules follow the black finish, cosmo knob style so you don’t have the crazy quilt look of eurorack.
Insert pithy statement here

User avatar
umma gumma
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 847
Joined: Wed May 24, 2017 10:54 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by umma gumma » Wed May 05, 2021 2:52 am

I have been very happy with Oakley modules: you can order kits or get them pre-built by Krisp or Lower West Side Studios, who are both on the forum.

http://www.oakleysound.com/projects.htm

Actually I see he is selling a complete system with case, on his site:

http://www.oakleysound.com/forsale.htm

Synthoholic
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 474
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2010 12:03 pm

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by Synthoholic » Fri May 07, 2021 12:10 am

Seb told me awhile back that he is going to be offering the Arp 2500 (with 3.5mm jacks instead of the switches because he just can't get them) for around 10k but I don't recall if it was euros or dollars. With regard to individual modules he told me that he would offer them to folks that would like to fill in some of the gaps in their systems.

I haven't discussed with him anything about whether or not he is going to be selling EMU but I think he is getting ready to offer the Polyclavier and some RSF modular stuff.


All of this makes me want to start selling cocaine or something just to be able to pay for my synth habit.

User avatar
josaka
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 1794
Joined: Sun May 15, 2016 2:00 am
Location: london

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by josaka » Fri May 07, 2021 9:19 am

Synthoholic wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 12:10 am
Seb told me awhile back that he is going to be offering the Arp 2500 (with 3.5mm jacks instead of the switches because he just can't get them) for around 10k but I don't recall if it was euros or dollars. With regard to individual modules he told me that he would offer them to folks that would like to fill in some of the gaps in their systems.

I haven't discussed with him anything about whether or not he is going to be selling EMU but I think he is getting ready to offer the Polyclavier and some RSF modular stuff.


All of this makes me want to start selling cocaine or something just to be able to pay for my synth habit.
been threatening all this for a while now.. my overriding feeling is him putting his feet up and making stuff for himself dabbling here and there.. :)

User avatar
boothnavy
Ultra Wiggler
Posts: 992
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 9:18 pm
Location: Westlake Village
Contact:

Re: Starting 5U in 2021

Post by boothnavy » Fri May 07, 2021 12:12 pm

Welcome!
boothnavy - synthesist

www.analogcraftsman.com

Post Reply

Return to “5U Format Modules”