Neutron sound Dust of Time.

From circuitbending to homebrew stompboxes & synths, keep the DIY spirit alive!

Moderators: Kent, luketeaford, Joe.

Post Reply
User avatar
defalut
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:26 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by defalut » Sat May 01, 2021 4:19 pm

Altitude909 wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 6:57 am
Polysilicon wrote:
Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:23 am
Question for assembly: do I need to use 1206 resistors for R1 and R3 or can I use 0805?
Those carry some current so you want the parts in the BOM or equally power rated 0805s which i guarantee you dont have on hand since they are exotic and expensive
Got a similar question; i have bucketloads of 0603´s and there are a lot of 0805´s in the iBom, but on the board the size and placement of the pads indicated that they are sized for 0603.
Anyway, is it OK to use 0603 resistors in general?
My tracks: https://soundcloud.com/mbangs

I build & sell MegaCommand units for MachineDrum, Analog 4 and MonoMachine! Pm for more info.

User avatar
Altitude909
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Meesheegan

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Altitude909 » Sat May 01, 2021 5:33 pm

its supposed to be all 805. iBom needs some clean up. 0603 will be fine throughout though

0-nikkor
1-Post Wiggler
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun May 02, 2021 3:15 am

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by 0-nikkor » Sun May 02, 2021 3:20 am

Is it possibile to cycle the envelope?

User avatar
defalut
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:26 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by defalut » Sun May 02, 2021 5:17 am

Altitude909 wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 5:33 pm
its supposed to be all 805. iBom needs some clean up. 0603 will be fine throughout though
iBom is clean enough, no worries. Is says 0805 everywhere it should, i think.
It´s just on the board itself there are a few placements that seems as if they would fit a 0603 better than a 0805.

But no matter, i got the answer i was looking for. Now i can use the 0603 spares which i have tons of - to complete the resistor part at least.

Thanks! :guinness:
My tracks: https://soundcloud.com/mbangs

I build & sell MegaCommand units for MachineDrum, Analog 4 and MonoMachine! Pm for more info.

User avatar
Altitude909
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Meesheegan

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Altitude909 » Sun May 02, 2021 5:24 am

defalut wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:17 am
Altitude909 wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 5:33 pm
its supposed to be all 805. iBom needs some clean up. 0603 will be fine throughout though
iBom is clean enough, no worries. Is says 0805 everywhere it should, i think.
It´s just on the board itself there are a few placements that seems as if they would fit a 0603 better than a 0805.

But no matter, i got the answer i was looking for. Now i can use the 0603 spares which i have tons of - to complete the resistor part at least.

Thanks! :guinness:
It was designed for 0805 parts.

User avatar
defalut
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:26 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by defalut » Tue May 04, 2021 2:43 pm

Altitude909 wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:24 am
defalut wrote:
Sun May 02, 2021 5:17 am
Altitude909 wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 5:33 pm
its supposed to be all 805. iBom needs some clean up. 0603 will be fine throughout though
iBom is clean enough, no worries. Is says 0805 everywhere it should, i think.
It´s just on the board itself there are a few placements that seems as if they would fit a 0603 better than a 0805.

But no matter, i got the answer i was looking for. Now i can use the 0603 spares which i have tons of - to complete the resistor part at least.

Thanks! :guinness:
It was designed for 0805 parts.
Yes, i see that now, my mistake. Was a while since i worked with SMD so i´m a bit rusty. But great that it works with 0603 aswell. I willl try to use 0805 as much as possible though. really looking forward to this, but i have to finish my rectangular thing first plus i have a bunch of megacommand to solder for other people so i have to prioritize. But soon, soon... :)
My tracks: https://soundcloud.com/mbangs

I build & sell MegaCommand units for MachineDrum, Analog 4 and MonoMachine! Pm for more info.

User avatar
Altitude909
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Meesheegan

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Altitude909 » Tue May 04, 2021 4:50 pm

it really doesnt matter, there are no specific spec resistors beyond the 1206 4R7 and even those are the "default specs for a 1206 resistor"

Sonic2ndtwelve
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:37 am

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Sonic2ndtwelve » Wed May 05, 2021 11:52 am

Hello From London Everyone.

I've build my DoT and am having a few problems. The teensy light comes on but the screen is dead (was working briefly). Both LEDs are on permanently and cant be faded across anymore. U1 also gets very hot and the maximum current draw of the module is 155ma on +12v and 17mv on -12v (measured with Joranalogue Test 3).

I've measured some voltages with DMM and have the following:

U1:
Pin 1 =4.99v
Pin 3 =3.27v
Pin 5 = 2.27v

U2:
Pin 1 =5.01v
Pin 3 =3.27v
Pin 5 = 1.97-2.02v (fluctuates a bit)

C6/5v TP = 5.02v
B8/+12v TP = 10.79v
B11/-12v TP = 11.19v
Between pins GND and VDD on screen = 5.02v

Is anyone able to shed any light on where I might have gone wrong here.

Thanks for any help.

Steve

User avatar
Altitude909
Super Deluxe Wiggler
Posts: 3727
Joined: Wed Aug 24, 2011 5:13 pm
Location: Meesheegan

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Altitude909 » Wed May 05, 2021 2:55 pm

sounds like a short somewhere, thats way too much current

soejrd
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jan 05, 2020 2:48 pm
Location: Netherlands

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by soejrd » Wed May 05, 2021 4:16 pm

Where can I get those knobs? I've geen looking for them for ages

Sonic2ndtwelve
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:37 am

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Sonic2ndtwelve » Wed May 05, 2021 5:26 pm

Altitude909 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:55 pm
sounds like a short somewhere, thats way too much current
Thanks for the reply.

Hmm! That sounds complicated. Any pointers on what to search for? I’ve gone over the board with an eye loupe but can’t see any obvious solder bridges.

The module was working at one point and I had the LEDS and the RECOM hanging out of the board, unsoldered. Then I must have touched something and it all went wrong. Do you think it’s a possibility that I’ve fried a component somewhere?

Thanks for your help.

User avatar
defalut
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:26 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by defalut » Thu May 06, 2021 7:18 am

Hey, wondering about a build doc for the unit, is there any existing?
Specifically i would like to know how to properly position the screen into the hole for it, and what distance adapters to use. I read 6mm long 2,5mm screws in nylon, some where.. is that correct? What doid you use?
I have a set of distances but they are 3mm adand various lengths.. might work though?
My tracks: https://soundcloud.com/mbangs

I build & sell MegaCommand units for MachineDrum, Analog 4 and MonoMachine! Pm for more info.

User avatar
defalut
Wiggling with Experience
Posts: 260
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:26 am
Location: Sweden

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by defalut » Thu May 06, 2021 2:46 pm

Hmm, what seems to fit best is the 1cm distances screwed to the two holes closest to the border. And as stated, i will need to cut off some corner or two to make the button beside it fit. Possibly i have round distandes, donnu.. i dont have very much of that kind of material, but since it´s only two i need maybe i can dig something up.
The screen was a real donkeys'a*s to loosen. Ended up removing the header fully from the display board and added a new one with longer pins and oriented 180 degrees compared to the original one.

The lack of build guide is both annoying and fun, it brings out the creativity but when you have so little time available sometimes it makes me go nuts over here.. :D
My tracks: https://soundcloud.com/mbangs

I build & sell MegaCommand units for MachineDrum, Analog 4 and MonoMachine! Pm for more info.

TL072
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by TL072 » Thu May 06, 2021 4:50 pm

Sonic2ndtwelve wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:26 pm
Altitude909 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:55 pm
sounds like a short somewhere, thats way too much current
Thanks for the reply.

Hmm! That sounds complicated. Any pointers on what to search for? I’ve gone over the board with an eye loupe but can’t see any obvious solder bridges.

The module was working at one point and I had the LEDS and the RECOM hanging out of the board, unsoldered. Then I must have touched something and it all went wrong. Do you think it’s a possibility that I’ve fried a component somewhere?

Thanks for your help.
A half-baked suggestion. Try to work out from the power supply out to the components with a multimeter continuity test. Put one probe on the ground and test points where there should be some kind of resistance. If there is a beep then you have some idea of the area where there is a short. There is a schematic on the github (https://github.com/jakplugg/Neutron-Sound-Dust-of-Time). The idea is to try to find one of the branches where the short seems to be and then try to narrow it down.

Not super helpful and if you have done a lot of diy then probably fairly obvious but this is where I would start.

User avatar
Neutron7
Oldschool bleeper
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Neutron7 » Fri May 07, 2021 9:20 pm

https://github.com/jakplugg/Neutron-Sound-Dust-of-TimeI have uploaded the 0.9.7C firmware to the Github, it has the "Randotron" that is a random patch generator. you can press Osc, FX, MOD, or a osc parameter, and a count bar will show, when it reaches the end then the randotron will appear. it has an animated background to remind you you are in the the randotron (there is a bug where it tries to count to infinity sometimes, a few random results have to line up a certain way. you can try and "esc" out but be prepared for possible "slowness crash")

Also here is another demo on SC https://soundcloud.com/neutron7/dot-exp ... oscillator

nerdy description in SC song page.

TL072
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by TL072 » Sat May 08, 2021 3:34 pm

Neutron7 wrote:
Fri May 07, 2021 9:20 pm
https://github.com/jakplugg/Neutron-Sound-Dust-of-TimeI have uploaded the 0.9.7C firmware to the Github, it has the "Randotron" that is a random patch generator. you can press Osc, FX, MOD, or a osc parameter, and a count bar will show, when it reaches the end then the randotron will appear. it has an animated background to remind you you are in the the randotron (there is a bug where it tries to count to infinity sometimes, a few random results have to line up a certain way. you can try and "esc" out but be prepared for possible "slowness crash")

Also here is another demo on SC https://soundcloud.com/neutron7/dot-exp ... oscillator

nerdy description in SC song page.
Wonderful! I looked at the changelog and it looks like the coding is outpacing the documentation (great!). Is there anything else that you can mention at this time? :)

If I can add a modest feature request, could it be possible to create an option to load the last loaded patch? I often turn off the modular between small sessions and it is nice to have the Dust of Time in the same state when I turn it back on.

Sonic2ndtwelve
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:37 am

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Sonic2ndtwelve » Sun May 09, 2021 6:13 am

TL072 wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:50 pm
Sonic2ndtwelve wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 5:26 pm
Altitude909 wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 2:55 pm
sounds like a short somewhere, thats way too much current
Thanks for the reply.

Hmm! That sounds complicated. Any pointers on what to search for? I’ve gone over the board with an eye loupe but can’t see any obvious solder bridges.

The module was working at one point and I had the LEDS and the RECOM hanging out of the board, unsoldered. Then I must have touched something and it all went wrong. Do you think it’s a possibility that I’ve fried a component somewhere?

Thanks for your help.
A half-baked suggestion. Try to work out from the power supply out to the components with a multimeter continuity test. Put one probe on the ground and test points where there should be some kind of resistance. If there is a beep then you have some idea of the area where there is a short. There is a schematic on the github (https://github.com/jakplugg/Neutron-Sound-Dust-of-Time). The idea is to try to find one of the branches where the short seems to be and then try to narrow it down.

Not super helpful and if you have done a lot of diy then probably fairly obvious but this is where I would start.
Hey, thanks for the pointers. It seems that there may have been a short between ground and the 5v line. When I probed between GND and the 5v test point I got an open circuit, so that pointed me in the right direction. The volt reg, U1 was getting very hot and there seemed to be a short between pin 1 (Vin) and pin 2 (GND) so, I removed it and the short to the 5v went away. I suppose I can assume that the voltage reg was faulty or blown.

A question - the BOM says use a 3v reg (ADP150). I don't any of those but have some 3.3v ones. Does anyone know if this would be ok to use instead.

Thanks.

User avatar
Neutron7
Oldschool bleeper
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Neutron7 » Sun May 09, 2021 1:57 pm

TL072 wrote:
Sat May 08, 2021 3:34 pm

Wonderful! I looked at the changelog and it looks like the coding is outpacing the documentation (great!). Is there anything else that you can mention at this time? :)

If I can add a modest feature request, could it be possible to create an option to load the last loaded patch? I often turn off the modular between small sessions and it is nice to have the Dust of Time in the same state when I turn it back on.
There is "auto save whatever you were last doing" which is almost the same as what you want but will also save any edits you have done since you loaded the last patch. Go to the config page, and scroll down to "AutoSv Mode"

Mode 1 will save the patch to internal Non vloatile memory a couple of seconds after the last thing you adjusted, it can make a click because the synth engine has to be momentarily stopped.

Mode 2 will do the same thing but only when the output VCA is closed, (it won't work at all if you have the output VCA in "thru", because there is always sound)

alternatively you can remember to hold Sys(shift) and press the right screen button before you shut down, which saves current state manually.

I'm guessing i may have forgotten to put anything about that in the manual!

User avatar
Neutron7
Oldschool bleeper
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Neutron7 » Sun May 09, 2021 2:02 pm

Sonic2ndtwelve wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:13 am

A question - the BOM says use a 3v reg (ADP150). I don't any of those but have some 3.3v ones. Does anyone know if this would be ok to use instead.

Thanks.
Don't do that, it derives the input CV offsets from the 3v, if it is the wrong voltage, then the offset will be off (zero v CV in will not be anywhere near "zero" internally)

TL072
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 40
Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by TL072 » Sun May 09, 2021 3:10 pm

Neutron7 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 1:57 pm

There is "auto save whatever you were last doing" which is almost the same as what you want but will also save any edits you have done since you loaded the last patch. Go to the config page, and scroll down to "AutoSv Mode"

Mode 1 will save the patch to internal Non vloatile memory a couple of seconds after the last thing you adjusted, it can make a click because the synth engine has to be momentarily stopped.

Mode 2 will do the same thing but only when the output VCA is closed, (it won't work at all if you have the output VCA in "thru", because there is always sound)

alternatively you can remember to hold Sys(shift) and press the right screen button before you shut down, which saves current state manually.

I'm guessing i may have forgotten to put anything about that in the manual!
Fantastic! It seemed like something that would have been added but then I guess I somehow did not see it in the config and only really consulted the manual. Loading the last loaded patch was the simplest thing I could think to implement but actually saving its current state is even better. Many thanks!

Sonic2ndtwelve
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:37 am

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Sonic2ndtwelve » Mon May 10, 2021 10:10 am

Neutron7 wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 2:02 pm
Sonic2ndtwelve wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 6:13 am

A question - the BOM says use a 3v reg (ADP150). I don't any of those but have some 3.3v ones. Does anyone know if this would be ok to use instead.

Thanks.
Don't do that, it derives the input CV offsets from the 3v, if it is the wrong voltage, then the offset will be off (zero v CV in will not be anywhere near "zero" internally)
Hey, thanks for the reply and advice. I certainly wont do that.

As the designer, can you advise on why the ADP150 (U1) had a short across pins 1 and 2 - blown I guess, but why would that happen. Both ADP150's (U1 and U3) were both also outputting only about 2 volts and not three. Any ideas? And does that mean that both are blown and need to be replaced?

Thanks,

Steve.

User avatar
Neutron7
Oldschool bleeper
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Neutron7 » Thu May 13, 2021 11:00 am

Sonic2ndtwelve wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:10 am

Hey, thanks for the reply and advice. I certainly wont do that.

As the designer, can you advise on why the ADP150 (U1) had a short across pins 1 and 2 - blown I guess, but why would that happen. Both ADP150's (U1 and U3) were both also outputting only about 2 volts and not three. Any ideas? And does that mean that both are blown and need to be replaced?

Thanks,

Steve.
I am not sure why that would happen, one thing to keep in mind though, the ADP150's are enabled by the firmware setting a pin on the teensy high, so they won't work with no teensy and/or no firmware.

snowtires
Common Wiggler
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2016 12:58 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by snowtires » Thu May 13, 2021 12:21 pm

Neutron7 wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 11:00 am
Sonic2ndtwelve wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:10 am

Hey, thanks for the reply and advice. I certainly wont do that.

As the designer, can you advise on why the ADP150 (U1) had a short across pins 1 and 2 - blown I guess, but why would that happen. Both ADP150's (U1 and U3) were both also outputting only about 2 volts and not three. Any ideas? And does that mean that both are blown and need to be replaced?

Thanks,

Steve.
I am not sure why that would happen, one thing to keep in mind though, the ADP150's are enabled by the firmware setting a pin on the teensy high, so they won't work with no teensy and/or no firmware.
Thanks so much for this module and making it open source. I use it in pretty much every patch! Is there an explanation as to what the little icons at the bottom of the OSC screen signify? I mean the ones that pop on and off when you press the two unlabelled buttons under the display. They aren't mentioned in the manual and I can't work out what they're doing.

Sonic2ndtwelve
Learning to Wiggle
Posts: 11
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2020 4:37 am

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Sonic2ndtwelve » Thu May 13, 2021 3:59 pm

Neutron7 wrote:
Thu May 13, 2021 11:00 am
Sonic2ndtwelve wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 10:10 am

Hey, thanks for the reply and advice. I certainly wont do that.

As the designer, can you advise on why the ADP150 (U1) had a short across pins 1 and 2 - blown I guess, but why would that happen. Both ADP150's (U1 and U3) were both also outputting only about 2 volts and not three. Any ideas? And does that mean that both are blown and need to be replaced?

Thanks,

Steve.
I am not sure why that would happen, one thing to keep in mind though, the ADP150's are enabled by the firmware setting a pin on the teensy high, so they won't work with no teensy and/or no firmware.
Well, my DoT now works fine, thanks to advice from people on here. I had to replace both of the voltage regulators which had failed for some reason. It’s a great module so amazing to have it available to the DIY community.

One question - I was wondering if it is possible to sync the LFO’s to a clock? Would be really creative if at all possible.
Attachments
B9C4B66F-6D1F-458B-BAAE-7D74F0891719.jpeg

User avatar
Neutron7
Oldschool bleeper
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 12:24 pm

Re: Neutron sound Dust of Time.

Post by Neutron7 » Fri May 14, 2021 7:20 am

Yes you can sync the LFOs to a clock or internally generated gate. you can use the 2 gate ins, 2 midi note ons, and 2 "gate generators" in the i/o section,

gate generators can do things like create a gate on a certain envelope segment, or when a modulator is above a certain threshold. (there is even a primitive euclidean circle!)

you can route them to the 4 "gate busses" using the gate matrix (also in the I/O section) the gate matrix also lets you apply rules to the gate bus, say you have 2 input gates enabled, it can generate a gate with any, only 1, only 2, or none active.

in the LFO you can select which gate bus to use.

Post Reply

Return to “Music Tech DIY”