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NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

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Quinie
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NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by Quinie »

Well, where to start.

On a search for CV input schematics I ran into the Mutable Instruments Grids schematic. Long story short, i forgot about my CV input and made a GridsNano. But don't let the name fool you it's stilll 16 hp.

I compiled the code on a Arduino Nano (clone), put it on a breadboard and it runs. Got some blinking led's and can adjust the tempo, and it hit's the TR606 triggers, got audio out YEAAAH!!

But waiting on LM4040 got me started on designing the pcb.

I copied most of the schematic to kicad and designed two pcb. A front and back pcb. I'm not a real electronics guy. So I'm just copy-ing, placing component as best as I can.

But I think it's time I start looking for some help.

Are my schematics correct? or did I made a few errors?
I would like to add the midi plug also so still working on that part...
And what about contacting Émilie? Where to place credits and how ?

But it seems to come to a final where the first prototype boards can be made. Before I send them I would like to have some feedback on this.

Below are the schematics and some 3d examples screens.

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Attachments
BackPlate.pdf
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SphericalSound
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Post by SphericalSound »

Nice!. I was thinking in producing a similar module. A TH grids clone with a twist, but now that you are doing it I will probably move on a different project. The pile of ideas is huge.

One idea: you dont need the 7805. You can use the one in the nano (so you feed directly +12 to the vin of the nano and save the 7805 and adjacents)

I havent looked at the schematic at full detail, but to me it seems that there´s no conection between the 2 boards. When you do sandwhiches, you normally connect both boards with male/female conectors and "from/to" labels. I dont see the from/to labels in your schem. (But I could be mssing something). How did you resolve it in kicad?. Did it worked ok?
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Post by Quinie »

Thx for having a look at it.

I'm new to kicad but what I did was place it all on one board and schematic. Having two of the same connectors with labels. Place them in mirror and on the backside. Then I removed the front part schematics and removed al the traces for that. Leaving me with the back board. Doing the same for the front board but other way around.

I put in the 7805 for a more stable v5 (don't know if it's true but my feeling say so) and not making the Arduino run hot.

Will post the kicad file when done with placing the midi and adjusting the schematics to the footprint of a more simpler button.

General idea is to save cost and make it thru hole. So anyone with a arduino and basic skills can build it.

My wiring is a mess, but it's kinda hard to place the U2, U3, U4. and keep it thight. Below some pics of the one board before stripping the schematic into two parts.

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cackland
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Post by cackland »

Without seeing your board layout and it’s labels, it’s hard to be certain however based on what you’ve shared with your layout (and it’s wires) it looks like the header above the nano should be connected to the corresponding header on the other pcb. Right now it shows one side of the nano connecting to the header.
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Post by SphericalSound »

Quinie wrote:Thx for having a look at it.

I'm new to kicad but what I did was place it all on one board and schematic. Having two of the same connectors with labels. Place them in mirror and on the backside. Then I removed the front part schematics and removed al the traces for that. Leaving me with the back board. Doing the same for the front board but other way around.

I put in the 7805 for a more stable v5 (don't know if it's true but my feeling say so) and not making the Arduino run hot.

Will post the kicad file when done with placing the midi and adjusting the schematics to the footprint of a more simpler button.

General idea is to save cost and make it thru hole. So anyone with a arduino and basic skills can build it.

My wiring is a mess, but it's kinda hard to place the U2, U3, U4. and keep it thight. Below some pics of the one board before stripping the schematic into two parts.

Image
Image
Image
So if it´s 2 boards, 2 projects then nice. Assuming you did not mess any connection it should work. :bananaguitar:
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CeeJay
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Post by CeeJay »

Looks like you forgot the bypass/decoupling capacitors for the opamps (6002) and the shift register (74HC595).
They need to be as close as possible to the IC power pins.
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Quinie
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Post by Quinie »

CeeJay wrote:Looks like you forgot the bypass/decoupling capacitors for the opamps (6002) and the shift register (74HC595).
They need to be as close as possible to the IC power pins.
You are probalbly right. I could not make out a part of the orginal schematic.
Image

But if I understand you correctly c9 c11 c13 and c18, need to be as close as possible to the chips, one for each chip. A newbie like me would excpect them in the schematics next to the chips. Thanks for explaning!

I'm still missing c3 what does that do ?

Looks like I need to draw the boards up again.
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CeeJay
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Post by CeeJay »

Yes, the schematics do not reflect the actual layout in regards to the component placement. It is more designed for clear overview.
Don‘t know where C3 is located. Best would be to look at the original Grids board files.
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Post by CeeJay »

And while you are at it ;-) I would also place the caps from the opamp feedback path directly next to the IC. On your layout there is empty space anyway (left and right side of the opamp, between pin 1&2 and 6&7).
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Post by SphericalSound »

You should put 100nf between +12V and GND and 100nf between -12V and GND. Both as close as posible the the -+12 pins. You do it in all opamps, always, and in mostly other chips too, so the chip get a stable power and dont do funny things. Here you have a video of thesynthdiyguy explaining it all perfectly and showing some cool and easy circuits.




Edit: By convention all people use 100nf, but 10nf or something in between (47nf) are ok too. Just stock a lot of them, they are cheap as chips
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Post by Quinie »

Today was a productive day. Made the schematics again and the boards.
It now has the decoupling caps.

It came in just above 10cm and about 7cm wide. So it should fit in 14 hp I think. Thanks for all the help and links.

Here are the latest screenies. Hope these are the finals so I can send the gerbers out to china.

Image

Image
Have to check my cutting into two pcb's, missing a logo and a mouting hole in picture ;)
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Post by Quinie »

Well update here. I got it working but not without some problems.

I made some footprint error. Most stupidly the size of the power connector. 2mm, same for the header. solved that one by buying some smaller headers.

The power is feed thru dupont jumper wires. Led 2 and 3 where swaped. So had to fix that one in the software. Don't like doing software update but it got it working correctly.

Tempo was on the wrong output pin (software update)

potentionmeter are counter clockwise (gnd and volt switched?)

All in all I only have to test the external clock, but forgot to but a 6m button. And manual says I need it for a external clock.

But I got meself a running NanoGrids.

Will release files soon but still thinking about updating the errors first, got a few boards and panels left over if someone wants them with a few errors.
Attachments
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20191205_170826.jpg
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20191206_200153.jpg (5.23 MiB) Viewed 3417 times
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Quinie
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by Quinie »

Well it's taken some time, smoke and well.. it's done
https://github.com/Quinienl/NanoGrids

Had one error in my last batch fixed it and published it to github.
If you want to build it the Kicad's and gerbers are there.

Panel hole for button might be to small or big depending on use of button caps. I just used a file.

I have a few pcb's left over with a small error that can easly be fixed.
Not having the post count to sell them I'm willing to trade.

https://github.com/Quinienl/NanoGrids/b ... s/blue.jpg
https://github.com/Quinienl/NanoGrids/b ... es/red.jpg
migueldetrool
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by migueldetrool »

So it appears I have been the first person to trade a board with Quinie and try this build for myself.

I came across this topic when I saw that Grids used the same processor as the Arduino Nano, and thought about making an Arduino version, only to discover that Quinie had done it all already !
Everything went smoothly with Quinie, postage took a while but that's the way it is. I gave him my first module design, a random voltage source,and he's given me valuable feedback on it (it needs quite some feedback haha), as well as obviously, NanoGrids PCB and Panel.

I had a few hesitations at first on how the PCBs aligned but it's a classic control board, brain board, and panel layout, and Quinie sent extra photos.
Build went mostly without any problems, except I had used wrong power resistors (100k instead of 10R...), so didn't start up at first, just needed to replace those.

Be careful to get the exact right button caps, I had to do a quick hack job with a shorter one. Works fine.
The only things I would say to be aware of is the LED resistor (R25, R26,R27, R28) values are quite low, so those blinking lights are BRIGHT haha, I would recommend 330R or 1K resistors.
If you want to use a shrouded header, place it before the power diodes and resistors as they will need to be moved a bit out of the way. Talking about diodes, I replaced the 1N4148s with 1N4001s, seemed more suitable for power.
The resistor R31 before the LM4040-5V is a 100k in Quinie's design but a 10k in Mutable Instruments. I believe the 100k asks for a lot of power, and because my power supply is a bit week, I wasn't getting the proper reference voltage, and the pots were not being read correctly. Swapped it for a 10k, everything was fine, got -5V, pots worked correctly.
Last problem (and really the only real problem) was pin 3 on the Tempo pot wasn't connected to ground. I believe this is a fabrication error because the files on Quinie's github have the necessary trace. Added a little wire you can see on the photos and finally, I had a fully functioning NanoGrids!

And it is really fully functioning, it has all the options, Euclidean mode, no problem!

The flashing of the Arduino is quite simple, I followed this tutorial: https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=410618.0
With this file: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... mdscjJvdVU

Great build, have a look at photos if you want to see flux all over the place. If anyone wants to reuse Quinie's project to redo the panel design so the hardware lines up with the original Mutable panel that could be a cool project.
Attachments
IMG_20201012_223921.jpg
IMG_20200930_135556.jpg
IMG_20200930_135544.jpg
IMG_20200930_135528.jpg
IMG_20200930_135514.jpg
Last edited by migueldetrool on Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
Hashtag Octothorpe
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by Hashtag Octothorpe »

Thank you for this! I wondered if a Nano could run a Grids! I'll be building mine point-to-point. In a tin can. Just waiting on the 595 shift register.
It's me, Juanito, the guy with the tin can synthesizer
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by migueldetrool »

Hashtag Octothorpe wrote: Thu Nov 12, 2020 9:56 pm Thank you for this! I wondered if a Nano could run a Grids! I'll be building mine point-to-point. In a tin can. Just waiting on the 595 shift register.
Daaaamn that is an ambitious idea haha. But if you think you're up to a tin can version I'd be interested in some photos
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by Quinie »

@Miguel thank you again for testing this and building it, etc.
@HashTag Octothorpe Would love to see a Grids in a can. Please don't forget to post the pictures when done.

I still have some boards left over and panels, pm for trades or other offers (black or white panels)
20201115_134841[1].jpg
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by stripou »

migueldetrool wrote: Tue Oct 20, 2020 3:23 am
The flashing of the Arduino is quite simple, I followed this tutorial: forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=410618.0
With this file: drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5t7I7Q ... mdscjJvdVU
Hi Miguel! I am building the nanogrids at the moment but cannot find the program for the nano...
I somehow can't access both the links you posted here, would you mind re-uping them? thank you!
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by pjbulls »

I'm assuming this runs the standard MI Grids firmware, which you can pull from their repository or from this random Google Drive that I found over in some other thread.
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by Quinie »

pjbulls wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 3:08 am I'm assuming this runs the standard MI Grids firmware
You are correct. I did it with a raspberry, cause I could not get the MI development running. I will have a look for the HEX file and upload it to make it some what easier. I have a lot to do this weekend so I might be next week I have the time for it.
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by migueldetrool »

stripou wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:29 pm I somehow can't access both the links you posted here, would you mind re-uping them? thank you!
Yes, sorry about that, my formatting of the URLs doesn't seem correct. When I click on them, it brings me to a link that has muffwiggler.com in it.

Try just copy/pasting the following plain text URLs, the webpages are still there.

forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=410618.0
drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5t7I7Q0p5bpdVEwamdscjJvdVU

Edit: trying formatting again
https://forum.arduino.cc/index.php?topic=410618.0

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... mdscjJvdVU
Last edited by migueldetrool on Mon Jan 25, 2021 5:50 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by stripou »

amazing thanks a lot!
couldnt copy paste the second link as it shortened it with "..." in the middle ;)
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by stripou »

Finished the build! But just to be sure i wanted to ask about the polarization of J12, where is + and where is -12v? or red line? thanks!
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by pjbulls »

From looking at the protection diodes, the square pad (bottom side, with the license label) is +12V. That would make the other side the 'red line' in the Doepfer standard (although he usually puts it towards the bottom I think :lol: ).
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Re: NanoGrids - A thru hole Grids on arduino

Post by stripou »

thanks! so far nano is lighting up but nothing on the front panel... will recheck the original grids manual, the flashing and my components...
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