New WMD Performance Mixer

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studio460
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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by studio460 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:06 pm

rocknrolla wrote:
Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:15 pm
I am contemplating between PM and Befaco hexmix. Now one of the advantages of a proper end of chain mixer is having EQ. However WMD PM does not have this. How important is having EQ when making electronic music on modular (without external mixer)?
I may be in the minority on this, but I much prefer to get it "right" out of the synth. It's like post-processing in photography. Get your exposure and white-balance correct on exposure and you're going to have the optimum dynamic-range and best-case colorimetry. For the small amount of quality gained in shooting RAW, it's often simply not worth the time, storage, and data-management in practical use. (An exception for cine applications, however, where custom-LUTs are built-in by the DIT for the DP, and making color decisions post-exposure are beneficial due to the high-level workflow employed in movie-making).

Sure, if you're shooting a double-truck ad for Revlon, shoot RAW. If shooting news, entertainment, or personal work, the built-in JPG profiles are usually more than adequate, and viewers (even expert ones) would have a hard time telling the difference.

That said, I may use some graphic-EQ in Logic to pump-up or shave-off a bass-frequency. Parametrics also definitely have their place, but I consider these more mastering- rather than production-tools.

That said, I think the WMD mixer is the best bang-for-the-buck in mixers. Though the initial investment may seem steep, it's still cheaper than buying two four-channel mixers with similar capabilities (because, you know, four-channels just ain't going to be enough). With its ample feature-set and number of channels, the WMD's cost-per-feature bests all of its competitors. It's one the first investments I made in modular since having a bunch of voices with nowhere to control them (or even simply to just monitor them) made creating sounds without such a tool an extremely limiting way to work.
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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by drxcm » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:01 pm

I agree some EQ would be helpful. I’ve sold that to some extent by just buying some nice EQ modules, namely Happy Nerding Tritone and the L-1 resonant eq. Both are awesome. Also have the Katowice right next to the WMD. Between those three and filters I can dial in just what I need.

I did see a nice Baxendall EQ in 4 or 6 hp somewhere recently and that caught my eye.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by drxcm » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:01 pm

Would love a 4 in 4 out tilt eq module, would be very handy!

Agree getting the sound right is important. Would rather eq instruments than the whole mix for the most part

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by studio460 » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:48 pm

drxcm wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:01 pm
. . . Would rather eq instruments than the whole mix for the most part
Right. That, too (I tend to go overboard on photography analogies sometimes!).
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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by jfloftin » Sat Apr 17, 2021 5:53 pm

I may have one of these up for sale @ $675 soon... I just gotta think about it...

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by mcetilia » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:30 pm

Picked up the PM DB25 expander recently (patiently awaiting its arrival), but feel a little cheated that the second connector only uses 4 of its 8 possible channels. Wondering if anybody else out there has hacked something together to take advantage of the missing channels? Would be great to have the aux sends & returns for example, or perhaps the aux returns and mix inputs, or even some sort of breakout with four jacks for other signals from elsewhere in your patch, if the other options would be too invasive…

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by Dark Barn » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:42 pm

mcetilia wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:30 pm
Picked up the PM DB25 expander recently (patiently awaiting its arrival), but feel a little cheated that the second connector only uses 4 of its 8 possible channels. Wondering if anybody else out there has hacked something together to take advantage of the missing channels? Would be great to have the aux sends & returns for example, or perhaps the aux returns and mix inputs, or even some sort of breakout with four jacks for other signals from elsewhere in your patch, if the other options would be too invasive…


It uses all of the channels I think, if you have the channels expander. If not, get the channels expander.
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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by mcetilia » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:48 pm

Dark Barn wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:42 pm
It uses all of the channels I think, if you have the channels expander. If not, get the channels expander.
Yeah definitely getting the channel expander (pre-ordered a while back, won't be here after the DB25 expansion arrives grr), but the DB25 connection can carry 8 channels — first DB25 connector passes the main outs + channels 1-6, the second just passes channels 7-10, so there should be 4 channels free on that one? Unless I am missing something…

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by Dark Barn » Mon Apr 19, 2021 2:50 pm

The stereo channels take up two outs per.
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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by mcetilia » Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:11 pm

Doh right! Never mind

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by deft_bonz » Tue Apr 20, 2021 12:48 am

mcetilia wrote:
Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:11 pm
Doh right! Never mind
Don't feel bad about it. I fell for that too at the beginning. :hihi:
16 channels are fully maxed. And fully balanced on my patchbay. Looking forward to my new case, where the PM DB25 is mounted on the back of the case.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:55 am

studio460 wrote:
Sat Apr 17, 2021 3:06 pm

I may be in the minority on this, but I much prefer to get it "right" out of the synth. It's like post-processing in photography. Get your exposure and white-balance correct on exposure and you're going to have the optimum dynamic-range and best-case colorimetry. For the small amount of quality gained in shooting RAW, it's often simply not worth the time, storage, and data-management in practical use. (An exception for cine applications, however, where custom-LUTs are built-in by the DIT for the DP, and making color decisions post-exposure are beneficial due to the high-level workflow employed in movie-making).

Sure, if you're shooting a double-truck ad for Revlon, shoot RAW. If shooting news, entertainment, or personal work, the built-in JPG profiles are usually more than adequate, and viewers (even expert ones) would have a hard time telling the difference.

That said, I may use some graphic-EQ in Logic to pump-up or shave-off a bass-frequency. Parametrics also definitely have their place, but I consider these more mastering- rather than production-tools.

That said, I think the WMD mixer is the best bang-for-the-buck in mixers. Though the initial investment may seem steep, it's still cheaper than buying two four-channel mixers with similar capabilities (because, you know, four-channels just ain't going to be enough). With its ample feature-set and number of channels, the WMD's cost-per-feature bests all of its competitors. It's one the first investments I made in modular since having a bunch of voices with nowhere to control them (or even simply to just monitor them) made creating sounds without such a tool an extremely limiting way to work.
Nice comparison!

I do like the concept of getting it right in the first place. I wonder if people still use external mixer with EQ afterwards. The whole 'in-rack' mixer for me personally is that i wouldn't need to bring my external mixer, which makes life much easier, especially if you're travelling and playing live. However, I do wonder how often would someone play live without having a mixer with EQ in the end. This is where Befaco mixer seems more useful for me as a final mixer.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:32 pm

So I just go this PM and testing it via aux sends to Eventide Space. I noticed that certain reverbs go straight into clipping as soon as led touches yellow (see the video). Is that expected/normal?


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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by mdoudoroff » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:43 pm

rocknrolla wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:32 pm
So I just go this PM and testing it via aux sends to Eventide Space. I noticed that certain reverbs go straight into clipping as soon as led touches yellow (see the video). Is that expected/normal?
PM is modular levels. Pedals are not.

Adjust your AUX pot on the PM to eliminate the clipping.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by monads » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:07 pm

Can also use something like the ADDAC200PI for pedal integration as well.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:13 pm

Ok good to know! For some reason i thought i can just blast signal into reverb..
monads wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 5:07 pm
Can also use something like the ADDAC200PI for pedal integration as well.
cheers, will check it out

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:13 pm

mdoudoroff wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:43 pm
rocknrolla wrote:
Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:32 pm
So I just go this PM and testing it via aux sends to Eventide Space. I noticed that certain reverbs go straight into clipping as soon as led touches yellow (see the video). Is that expected/normal?
PM is modular levels. Pedals are not.

Adjust your AUX pot on the PM to eliminate the clipping.
Eventide support informed me that this does not look like clipping, because if it were, the Peak LED would be blinking red indicating a too hot signal. However it's not doing that. Do you still believe it's clipping then?

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by drxcm » Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:53 pm

You could be clipping the PM aux buss. Those levels are high on the meters and your aux send is all the way up.

Pretty easy to test. Just turn things down a bit!

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:19 pm

drxcm wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:53 pm
You could be clipping the PM aux buss. Those levels are high on the meters and your aux send is all the way up.

Pretty easy to test. Just turn things down a bit!
But shouldn't the dedicated aux bus on a mixer be designed to be maxed out? Same happens on befaco hexmix aux bus btw.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by drxcm » Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:51 pm

rocknrolla wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:19 pm
drxcm wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:53 pm
You could be clipping the PM aux buss. Those levels are high on the meters and your aux send is all the way up.

Pretty easy to test. Just turn things down a bit!
But shouldn't the dedicated aux bus on a mixer be designed to be maxed out? Same happens on befaco hexmix aux bus btw.
Hmm, well there is only so much headroom available, and it looks like your signal is well over 0db on the Master, so not surprised you’re getting clipping!

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by deft_bonz » Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:00 am

rocknrolla wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 3:19 pm
drxcm wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:53 pm
You could be clipping the PM aux buss. Those levels are high on the meters and your aux send is all the way up.

Pretty easy to test. Just turn things down a bit!
But shouldn't the dedicated aux bus on a mixer be designed to be maxed out? Same happens on befaco hexmix aux bus btw.
No. No bus should be maxed out.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:09 am

drxcm wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:51 pm

Hmm, well there is only so much headroom available, and it looks like your signal is well over 0db on the Master, so not surprised you’re getting clipping!
deft_bonz wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:00 am

No. No bus should be maxed out.
Ok, good to know! I guess it depends on the FX as well. I can go even into the red with full aux with my Eurorack delay and 2hp verb without any issues. Even Space works on most of the reverbs, only Blackhole type of reverbs cause that.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by deft_bonz » Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:34 am

rocknrolla wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:09 am
drxcm wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:51 pm

Hmm, well there is only so much headroom available, and it looks like your signal is well over 0db on the Master, so not surprised you’re getting clipping!
deft_bonz wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:00 am

No. No bus should be maxed out.
Ok, good to know! I guess it depends on the FX as well. I can go even into the red with full aux with my Eurorack delay and 2hp verb without any issues. Even Space works on most of the reverbs, only Blackhole type of reverbs cause that.
It depends on the input stage of the receiving unit. So, if you have a unit that distorts, use the aux send gain trim that mixers usually have. This way you can turn down the general aux bus volume. The PM doesn't have that though. But you must hit it really hard in order to overdrive the aux bus on the PM.

The other way to prevent distortion on the receiving unit, is to turn down the input gain there, if it has one. Otherwise use an attenuator in between.

In your case the levels between Eurorack and pedals are greatly different. Eurorack has inherently much hotter signals than pedals expect. They expect low level guitar signals. You accommodate for that.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:50 am

deft_bonz wrote:
Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:34 am

It depends on the input stage of the receiving unit. So, if you have a unit that distorts, use the aux send gain trim that mixers usually have. This way you can turn down the general aux bus volume. The PM doesn't have that though. But you must hit it really hard in order to overdrive the aux bus on the PM.

The other way to prevent distortion on the receiving unit, is to turn down the input gain there, if it has one. Otherwise use an attenuator in between.

In your case the levels between Eurorack and pedals are greatly different. Eurorack has inherently much hotter signals than pedals expect. They expect low level guitar signals. You accommodate for that.
Got it, cheers. Considering that issue only arises on certain reverbs, i will continue like that. As I understood there is no harm for any of the gear directly connecting eurorack to guitar pedals apart from the clipping.

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Re: New WMD Performance Mixer

Post by rocknrolla » Mon May 03, 2021 3:38 pm

I am curious if someone with PM could confirm this. Say I insert one end of the cable into input channel of PM and when I touch other end of the cable to any of the metal input/output plugs of other modules I get a loud buzz/noise sounds (if that channel is up). I disconnected all my external gear and same happens both when using speakers or on only headphones. Does this sound like a grounding issue on my part? Could be that nothing to do with performance mixer of course.

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